Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Encyclopedia of American Loons: #1198: Sherri Tenpenny
"Encyclopedia of American Loons" "Sherri Tenpenny, an osteopath who doesn’t appear to practice medicine in any recognizable way anymore, is an abysmally crazy promoter of woo, antivaxx views and conspiracy theories. . . . Her website presents her as “one of the country’s most knowledgeable and outspoken physicians regarding the impact of vaccines on health,” but Tenpenny has no relevant educational background or expertise (e.g. on infectious disease or immunology), and has published no research on any related topic. . . . Tenpenny is even a a germ theory denialist; according to Tenpenny disease seems to be due to toxins that damage the body, and the germs subsequently take advantage of the toxin-damaged tissues – she has even been caught quoting the well-debunked lie that Pasteur recanted his germ theory on his death bed, no less."
You do realize that you responded to a post about Suzanne Humphries with a derogatory quote about an entirely different person, Sherri Tennpenny?
I might as well tackle all your recent posts at once, Tokinouta.
The topic of the forum is "Pro-Vax, Anti-Vax? Why so Polarized?" You have spammed the forum with that link from CNN, which, I hasten to point out, says "Medical errors may be 3rd leading cause of death in U.S. - CNN.com" MAY! Do I need to post the definition for you? In point of fact, there's a whole raft of articles from different media with the same title when you do a Google search. suzy has done a great job of pointing out the problems with that study. You have not brought up one instance of medical error WRT vaccines.
I'd like to know a little more about these conversations you have with people re: not vaccinating. How do you encounter these people?
KevinMD seems to be fairly well thought of, at least he's not in "The Encyclopedia of American Loons" like some anti-vax doctors, e.g. Joe Mercola, Mehmet Oz, Sherry Tenpenney and others. However, that post of his is a Gish-gallop. I don't get the connection of debilitating chronic pain, thalidomide, or Accutane, or Vioxx to vaccines. Speaking of debilitation chronic pain, Kevin seems not to have gotten the memo about the opioid "crisis", brought up in another post as yet another example of evil health care practitioners. For decades, yea, almost the entirety of my nursing career from 1970-about 2010, we health care professionals were bashed over the head about not treating pain adequately, concerns about addiction were pooh-poohed or even laughed at. So doctors and other prescribers started treating pain more agressively. Now "they" tell us there's an opioid crisis. Speaking of Thalidomide, as suzy said, it was never approved in the US. The US did not have bunch of "Thalidomide babies" like Germany, where it was sold OTC. Thalidomide Stock Photos and Pictures | Getty Images It was also sold in many other countries, yet our FDA gets bashed for being "too slow" to approve drugs. The story of Accutane is not as cut and dried as Kevin likes to think. Three years after Accutane's withdrawal, derms discuss current prescribing practices | Dermatology Times Ditto Vioxx. As far as the Tuskegee study, does Kevin really have to go back that far in history to find some example? Yes, it was awful. No, we'd never do anything like that today, yet. . . the anti-vaxers want us to do just that with their constant yammering for a "vaxed vs unvaxed" study. They want researchers to deliberately withhold a proven intervention to "see what happens". We don't do that stuff any more. It's against the Helsinki Accords. Diagnosis of homosexuality as a disorder has not been the case since 1987. Again, he's digging deep in the archives to find these examples. Society's attitudes towards homesexuality have changed a lot in the last 50 years, particulary I would say the last 30 or so, and has nothing to do with vaccines. "(T)he forced sterilization of people with cognitive disabilities" was a political movement, not medical. "After World War II, public opinion towards eugenics and sterilization programs became more negative in the light of the connection with the genocidal policies of Nazi Germany, though a significant number of sterilizations continued in a few states through the 1970s." It also has nothing to do with vaccines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization
While you think it's "great advice", I'll point out there's no advice at all!
Agree with suzy that comments about "retribution" are foolish. I'll also add that you are personally attacking her with the bold. That is supposed to be against the TOS.
More attacks. Yet you AVs are always complaining about how "mean" pro-vax people are.
Some of us have been posting on these threads for years. There is one poster on here who constantly talks about "consequences". Not simply consequences of catching the disease, but consequences which the Government should impose upon citizens who are in non-compliance with the CDC's vaccinations. Unvaccinated children being denied a public school education? Oh, no. Consequences for the adults themselves. Higher health insurance rates (tracking adult vaccinations?) for not getting every vaccine on the CDC's schedule. Showing vaccination papers for everyone to get on a plane (International AND Domestic). Not hired for jobs and FIRED if non-compliant for every vaccination. Government should impose consequences in the name of the greater good. I object to this as an adult solely on basis of the legal aspects of that. If you can impose vaccination for the greater good, what else can you impose for the greater good based on what YOU think is necessary? Anyone over the age of 18, can refuse any medical treatment (vaccines included) they choose. Do you want to change this?
You like citing Jacobson for this, BUT was that invoked in 2009 for that last Pandemic? Why NOT? I guess you dropped the ball only 8 years ago for mass vaccinations for the Flu. While the Obama White House did not want to invoke Jacobson, do you really think the TRUMP Administration will for the next "Pandemic"? The BIG ONE that is coming. I read somewhere that CNN is having a special on the next Pandemic that could wipe out mankind. More FEAR tactics.
This is not just a Medical issue but a Political and Legal one as well. If a person cannot control their own body, they cannot control anything.
I do applaud DU for putting this issue on the Politics thread. It is not just about SCIENCE.
Some of us have been posting on these threads for years. There is one poster on here who constantly talks about "consequences". Not simply consequences of catching the disease, but consequences which the Government should impose upon citizens who are in non-compliance with the CDC's vaccinations. Unvaccinated children being denied a public school education? Oh, no. Consequences for the adults themselves. Higher health insurance rates (tracking adult vaccinations?) for not getting every vaccine on the CDC's schedule. Showing vaccination papers for everyone to get on a plane (International AND Domestic). Not hired for jobs and FIRED if non-compliant for every vaccination. Government should impose consequences in the name of the greater good. I object to this as an adult solely on basis of the legal aspects of that. If you can impose vaccination for the greater good, what else can you impose for the greater good based on what YOU think is necessary? Anyone over the age of 18, can refuse any medical treatment (vaccines included) they choose. Do you want to change this?
You like citing Jacobson for this, BUT was that invoked in 2009 for that last Pandemic? Why NOT? I guess you dropped the ball only 8 years ago for mass vaccinations for the Flu. While the Obama White House did not want to invoke Jacobson, do you really think the TRUMP Administration will for the next "Pandemic"? The BIG ONE that is coming. I read somewhere that CNN is having a special on the next Pandemic that could wipe out mankind. More FEAR tactics.
This is not just a Medical issue but a Political and Legal one as well. If a person cannot control their own body, they cannot control anything.
I do applaud DU for putting this issue on the Politics thread. It is not just about SCIENCE.
I wouldn't normally talk about vaccines because I usually just stay on here to talk politics in general. I was surprised to see it on here, there have been a few but not many. It is becoming a political issue though as you point out, with the school mandates. So now it's got my attention.
Usually there are just horrid medical mistakes floating around this thread. Like the cancer doctor who lied about all those people having cancer to make money off of them. One good reason to have non profit healthcare. The motivation to make money off peoples care gets out of control for sure. For me it just leaves so much doubt about medical care in America. It's hard to trust, and you still can't afford it.
Last edited by Tokinouta; 04-10-2017 at 03:16 PM..
Some of us have been posting on these threads for years. There is one poster on here who constantly talks about "consequences". Not simply consequences of catching the disease, but consequences which the Government should impose upon citizens who are in non-compliance with the CDC's vaccinations. Unvaccinated children being denied a public school education? Oh, no. Consequences for the adults themselves. Higher health insurance rates (tracking adult vaccinations?) for not getting every vaccine on the CDC's schedule. Showing vaccination papers for everyone to get on a plane (International AND Domestic). Not hired for jobs and FIRED if non-compliant for every vaccination. Government should impose consequences in the name of the greater good. I object to this as an adult solely on basis of the legal aspects of that. If you can impose vaccination for the greater good, what else can you impose for the greater good based on what YOU think is necessary? Anyone over the age of 18, can refuse any medical treatment (vaccines included) they choose. Do you want to change this?
You like citing Jacobson for this, BUT was that invoked in 2009 for that last Pandemic?Why NOT?I guess you dropped the ball only 8 years ago for mass vaccinations for the Flu.While the Obama White House did not want to invoke Jacobson, do you really think the TRUMP Administration will for the next "Pandemic"? The BIG ONE that is coming. I read somewhere that CNN is having a special on the next Pandemic that could wipe out mankind. More FEAR tactics.
This is not just a Medical issue but a Political and Legal one as well. If a person cannot control their own body, they cannot control anything.
I do applaud DU for putting this issue on the Politics thread. It is not just about SCIENCE.
Yes, I'm one of them. So what?
You shouldn't be making accusations like that w/o naming names, so the accused can respond.
No.
I don't know. Maybe you could Google it.
Me? I don't work for the CDC! Get personal again, Jo, it's so effective.
No. Since this is the politics forum, I will say I think the Trump administration is ineffectual.
What motive could there be to trying to get everyone to fear vaccines? I just don't understand this way of thinking. Individuals make choices for their families based on the available information but what possible motive could there be to try to scare others into not getting vaccinated? There is nothing to be gained from that.
Not this lady again. Sorry but she is hardly representative of most parents who make the decision not to vaccinate for this or that. She did zero research of her own and has major trust issues as she claims she doesn't even trust people in general. She excluded all research available from major reputable organizations? That's stupid and certainly not representative of people who make informed choices. I'm sorry but this is woman is kind of a moron and to use her as the example of how "anti-vaxers" make decisions is dishonest. She's an anomaly at best. It's not a decision most people make lightly nor is it a "coin toss" or one that's made without looking at a ton of information, most from what you'd consider to be reputable sources.
I do not believe that you are unaware of the fear tactics the anti-vaccine movement uses. There are people for whom that movement is their entire life. If they ever admit they were wrong about anything they have said about vaccines - for example, that vaccines do not cause autism - they lose all credibility. They do indeed make money peddling fear, not only those who sell supplements but from books, DVDs, and speaking fees.
It is telling that you call the woman in the link I gave "kind of a moron." That is funny, because she is indeed typical of the well educated mom who "did her research" and looked at "a ton of information". She rejected scientific sources because she fell into the conspiracy trap, the idea those sources could not be trusted. The anti-vaccine movement has viciously attacked the CDC, the FDA, and physicians like Dr. Paul Offit. Even you reject anything I post written by pro-vax doctors. To you, any study done with money from a company that makes vaccines is automatically "biased" and not to be trusted. The fact is that if you make a decision not to use any vaccine, including influenza or HPV, you have to make that decision using sources that are not reputable. There are no reputable sources that will tell you not vaccinating is better than vaccinating.
"That woman" was used in my conversation with Tokinouta as an example of a person who changed her mind about vaccination when faced with vaccine preventable disease in the community (the Disney associated measles outbreak). That was what what convinced her to vaccinate her children, not the whooping cough, since she had decided to catch up her children's vaccines before they got sick. The whooping cough experience just drove the message home. She is not an anomaly. If you search you will find others like her. Every measles outbreak in non-vaccinating communities is eventually controlled by vaccination. People who rejected the vaccine do take it when when friends and family members get sick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Katarina, I would like to show you some images of what life is and was like where I grew up.
Children don't ride the subways? Scroll down and you will see a group of private school girls in uniforms riding a subway car. No school buses for students. You are given a mass transit pass to ride the subways or buses to get to school.
Keep your unvaccinated kids away from my unvaccinated kids, or adults? WHO is vaccinated and who isn't? Do they have some contagious disease? Who KNOWS? People squeeze into these subway cars within inches of other faces. The worst is when mothers bring strollers with their babies into this mix. They try to squeeze into these cars too, and people trip all over them.
My family was just an "outlier"? You cannot live in NYC and be terrified of catching a deadly disease. Lock you and you kids up in your apartment and never go out in public where you might (probably WILL) be exposed to some disease? Again, it was also like this back in the 50's. You just live with it, and it was not just MY family. You cannot live your life in fear.
Some things you can prevent and some you cannot.
It is unwise not to prevent what is preventable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
My anti-vax buddies?????
You mean to say that because there are ways to reduce the risk of complications and death in some VPD through the use of nutrition that people who sell supplements (Dr. Mercola is the only one I can think of who sells supplements and speaks out against vaccines) would actually try to get the masses to forgo vaccinations just because they might make a little more money if someone finds their website and orders some supplements in case they had measles or something?
How much money would they stand to make in such a scenario? It seems like it would be pretty miniscule. There are a lot of reasons people use supplements, surely the amount one might be able to make from the small group of "anti-vaxers" in the instance they came down with a VPD due to lack of vaccination wouldn't be worth the trouble. Not to mention it's much easier to walk into a store and buy a bottle of supplements if you are actually sick rather then ordering it directly from someone like Mercola and waiting for it to come in the mail. It's pretty absurd.
Dr. Sears is a real doctor. Can you post a list of his prices for visists? I see a doctor who takes cash only and it's not a cash grab but rather a different model of care. Not dealing with insurance is a way to cut costs and many doctors pass the savings on to their patients. My doctor who only takes cash is a bargain. Also, do you have any evidence that Dr. Sears marks up his vaccines? I mean if you're going ot make such accusations, I would hope that you would have something to back them up with. Let us know his prices.
If you're going to show me a picture of Dr. Mercola's mansion you should probably post a side by side between his mansion and the mansion of the CEO of Merck. It's only fair. The love of money is most certainly alive and well in the pharmaceutical industry as well. Dr. Mercola could stand to make a ton more if he quit selling supplements and instead sold pharmaceuticals. He's not my buddy by the way.
I know about the mother from Ottawa because the article had been shared here before in another conversation. It's a few years old. I have a good memory. I've already told you that I'm not on any "anti-vaxer" discussion groups or Facebook groups. I never said that I only read mainstream and local media either. Yet you keep harping on this. I don't understand why this is such a sticking point for you. It's pretty unproductive to keep bringing it up as if there is some kind of conspiracy going on.
Why is doing things to reduce the risk of complications from a disease after you get it better than preventing the disease in the first place?
You never have explained the logic behind that to me.
Global supplement sales are expected to reach $278 billion by 2024.
Mercola has found his niche, and he promotes supplements over vaccines. He could never make what he does from supplements by prescribing vaccines. Doctors who give pediatric vaccines are lucky to break even on them. As far as selling them is concerned, the cynic in me wonders if he owns stock in any drug companies. I would love to know!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
I think what upset me the most about this list was the Flu Vaccine containing Canine Kidney Cells. A Dog is a Domestic PET. The one piece I read about this said that this was in response to people with egg allergies. As a pet person, I find this horrific. Just so as many humans as possible can get a stupid flu shot???? I wonder how many people with egg allergies want to be injected with dog cells instead? I always check packages to see if they say "Not Tested on Animals". Get injected with a domestic animal's cells? Come here, Fido, we need your cells for a vaccine? SICK.
I wonder what PETA thinks about this? Do they even know? What would be the public's reaction if they knew about this ingredient? Damn, talk about being Desperate to push Flu Shots.
There are no dog cells in any vaccine. Saying that demonstrates a fundamental ignorance about how vaccines are made. The cells are used to grow virus, the virus is then removed from the cell culture and used to make the vaccine.
No one is kidnapping pet dogs to use their kidneys to make vaccines. The cell line came from the kidney of a single adult female cocker spaniel - in 1958.
I doubt PETA would be interested, and if you think PETA is for protecting pets you have no idea what they really do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta
Since you've "tackled" my threads I'd be glad to give you a response. There is no medical tie from these studies to vaccines. I never claimed there were. The tie from medical error to peoples perception of the medical profession affects how they choose to receive medical advice. Whether medical errors are our third, fourth or sixth largest killer. Whether it's failed advice on Vioxx or not, it is a reason some people are turning away from medical advice and onto holistic advice. That includes people who don't vaccinate, or are "choosy" about vaccinations.
What I said to Suzy was not meant as an "attack." I'm not sure why you'd classify something as a minor observance as an "attack." There was no name calling there. I actually think she is quite knowledgeable. I clearly said I wasn't applying it to her personally. I commented on the posters style of writing, I said it lacked feelings and it does. It's similar to those who say someone is "overly emotional" and lacks facts in their message. Is that an attack? No. If their post is emotional and lacks facts, then it does. You aren't saying they personally are emotional and illiterate are you? I would hope not because how would you know?
Suzy is probably very nice, but it wasn't about her personally.
As an example: The singer from a popular rock band was asked, why are you so popular when you can't sing as well as others. His reply, I sound believable. People relate to the sincerity in my voice. Suzy is so good at logging long lists of scientific information her posts read sterile to me. She explained her reason for this well though. I don't think she needed your misguided protection. It all made sense when she said her post were not meant for local posters. They were a wide message of facts for people who might be searching the internet for vaccine information.
You agreeing with Suzy isn't surprising at all. I figured as much. You seem to be on the same page and most people are on your page. Most people vaccinate. What I was addressing is a reason for the few who don't.
Since you're a nurse, getting a patients view from you wouldn't be something I'd expect. I get your side. I'm a patient, you get my reasons why people feel that vaccines might be harmful and don't trust those facts. I realize it's surprising to you, but it's understandable to others. I realize you don't agree, I've read your posts. Unlike Suzy's posts yours read emotional. It conveys to me that you are angry. You probably really aren't, it just reads that way. Or maybe it's intentional because you are angry and fed up with people who refuse vaccines.
Suzy's posts may read as "sterile" because she has an educational background in science. Vaccine science speaks for itself, and there is no scientific debate about the effectiveness and safety of vaccines. The "debate" is a manufactured controversy by people who have not got a clue about vaccines and have no evidence to support their "side" of the "controversy". To me, emotion has no place in making medical decisions. That is why doctors are strongly discouraged from treating their own family members. That is also why people should also not let emotion rule medical choices other than vaccines.
Why are you surprised that Kat gave you a patient point of view? All of us - every vaccine research scientist, every pediatrician or other doctor who prescribes vaccines - have families and vaccinate them and themselves. My family is vaccinated, the adults fully and the grandkids on the recommended schedule. DH and I took the Tdap and we have both had the shingles and pneumonia vaccines. DH had already had one episode of shingles before he took the vaccine.
Are pro-vax folks "angry and fed up with people who refuse vaccines"? Yes. That is why pediatricians are asking vaccine refusing parents to take their children elsewhere. That is why the writer of the blog that MissTerri does not like is snarky. That writer does have a talent for destroying vaccine pseudoscience though, by using real science.
I do not believe that you are unaware of the fear tactics the anti-vaccine movement uses. There are people for whom that movement is their entire life. If they ever admit they were wrong about anything they have said about vaccines - for example, that vaccines do not cause autism - they lose all credibility. They do indeed make money peddling fear, not only those who sell supplements but from books, DVDs, and speaking fees.
It is telling that you call the woman in the link I gave "kind of a moron." That is funny, because she is indeed typical of the well educated mom who "did her research" and looked at "a ton of information". She rejected scientific sources because she fell into the conspiracy trap, the idea those sources could not be trusted. The anti-vaccine movement has viciously attacked the CDC, the FDA, and physicians like Dr. Paul Offit. Even you reject anything I post written by pro-vax doctors. To you, any study done with money from a company that makes vaccines is automatically "biased" and not to be trusted. The fact is that if you make a decision not to use any vaccine, including influenza or HPV, you have to make that decision using sources that are not reputable. There are no reputable sources that will tell you not vaccinating is better than vaccinating.
"That woman" was used in my conversation with Tokinouta as an example of a person who changed her mind about vaccination when faced with vaccine preventable disease in the community (the Disney associated measles outbreak). That was what what convinced her to vaccinate her children, not the whooping cough, since she had decided to catch up her children's vaccines before they got sick. The whooping cough experience just drove the message home. She is not an anomaly. If you search you will find others like her. Every measles outbreak in non-vaccinating communities is eventually controlled by vaccination. People who rejected the vaccine do take it when when friends and family members get sick.
Some things you can prevent and some you cannot.
It is unwise not to prevent what is preventable.
Why is doing things to reduce the risk of complications from a disease after you get it better than preventing the disease in the first place?
You never have explained the logic behind that to me.
Global supplement sales are expected to reach $278 billion by 2024.
Mercola has found his niche, and he promotes supplements over vaccines. He could never make what he does from supplements by prescribing vaccines. Doctors who give pediatric vaccines are lucky to break even on them. As far as selling them is concerned, the cynic in me wonders if he owns stock in any drug companies. I would love to know!
There are no dog cells in any vaccine. Saying that demonstrates a fundamental ignorance about how vaccines are made. The cells are used to grow virus, the virus is then removed from the cell culture and used to make the vaccine.
No one is kidnapping pet dogs to use their kidneys to make vaccines. The cell line came from the kidney of a single adult female cocker spaniel - in 1958.
I doubt PETA would be interested, and if you think PETA is for protecting pets you have no idea what they really do.
Suzy's posts may read as "sterile" because she has an educational background in science. Vaccine science speaks for itself, and there is no scientific debate about the effectiveness and safety of vaccines. The "debate" is a manufactured controversy by people who have not got a clue about vaccines and have no evidence to support their "side" of the "controversy". To me, emotion has no place in making medical decisions. That is why doctors are strongly discouraged from treating their own family members. That is also why people should also not let emotion rule medical choices other than vaccines.
Why are you surprised that Kat gave you a patient point of view? All of us - every vaccine research scientist, every pediatrician or other doctor who prescribes vaccines - have families and vaccinate them and themselves. My family is vaccinated, the adults fully and the grandkids on the recommended schedule. DH and I took the Tdap and we have both had the shingles and pneumonia vaccines. DH had already had one episode of shingles before he took the vaccine.
Are pro-vax folks "angry and fed up with people who refuse vaccines"? Yes. That is why pediatricians are asking vaccine refusing parents to take their children elsewhere. That is why the writer of the blog that MissTerri does not like is snarky. That writer does have a talent for destroying vaccine pseudoscience though, by using real science.
Are you having someone else write for you on here? Is that why your post is in third person?
Regarding the bold you have misread what I said. I was the one giving a personal response, I didn't object to Katrina using a personal response, she didn't give one as a patient. I was explaining my response as a patient, and her's as a medical professional. So your response isn't valid.
Why do you both answer each others threads? I'm starting to think you are both one person, especially when you use third person to explain your thoughts.
You can read it again, and if you don't understand what I said to Katrina and I'll rephrase it for you.
I can see that some of the medical professionals get angry at patients who don't follow the normal route. It's there right and we are consumers. They run a business in America. It's not like other countries, there is no social network with our doctors. We sell a lot of medicine and tests they wouldn't in a non profit healthcare. And doctors there wouldn't refuse a patient. America is different. I understand that completely.
Consumers of healthcare are different in America as well. For one, we are consumers of medical care. We are use to having to make choices, out of cost and services.
Getting angry at patients is the recourse patients are worried about if they have an opinion that differs from the doctor in America. It's like the baker who refuses cakes for gays, they can but it's still a bit of a shocker.
I hate the for profit American healthcare system. That's no secret on here, I talk about that often.
Are you having someone else write for you on here? Is that why your post is in third person?
Regarding the bold you have misread what I said. I was the one giving a personal response, I didn't object to Katrina using a personal response, she didn't give one as a patient. I was explaining my response as a patient, and her's as a medical professional. So your response isn't valid.
Why do you both answer each others threads? I'm starting to think you are both one person, especially when you use third person to explain your thoughts.
You can read it again, and if you don't understand what I said to Katrina and I'll rephrase it for you.
I can see that some of the medical professionals get angry at patients who don't follow the normal route. It's there right and we are consumers. They run a business in America. It's not like other countries, there is no social network with our doctors. We sell a lot of medicine and tests they wouldn't in a non profit healthcare. And doctors there wouldn't refuse a patient. America is different. I understand that completely.
Consumers of healthcare are different in America as well. For one, we are consumers of medical care. We are use to having to make choices, out of cost and services.
Getting angry at patients is the recourse patients are worried about if they have an opinion that differs from the doctor in America. It's like the baker who refuses cakes for gays, they can but it's still a bit of a shocker.
I hate the for profit American healthcare system. That's no secret on here, I talk about that often.
As I said the other day to Jo48, who complained when I responded to something she said to someone else (and I don't remember who and I don't feel like going back right now to look), this forum is open to the public. Anyone can respond to anyone they wish to. Another conspiracy, Katarina an suzy_q2010 are the same person! Nope, I can assure you, we're our own persons.
All health care professionals are also consumers.
What other country do you have experience receiving health care in? The insurance system is a health care financing system. It pays for the provision of health care. It's not that doctors are doing certain things to make money for the insurance companies. Plus if you think there are no rules in a UHC, you have another think coming. (Some UHCs are insurance based, BTW.) It's hilarious to see people asking for more preventive care, which they think is going to save bundles of money for health care, then decrying "tests". The only real preventive care is vaccines. However,screening tests, you know, these paps we were talking about, blood pressure measurements, blood tests for glucose, thyroid, cholesterol, etc, can pick up little problems before they become big ones.
The only medical professional that I ever trusted was my OB 32 years ago. I also had an RN Aunt who drove me crazy even as a young child back in the 50's. I thought she was nuts even as a child 60 years ago.
My OB bucked the medical system even back in 1979, In today's world, he would not have lasted one day. Thirty years after he delivered my children (early 2000's), he had his license to practice medicine revoked. Did not surprise me to learn this. He died a few years later.
RIP, Dr. George, I RESPECTED, and trusted you. Again, people will trust their own life experiences. The older you get, the more experiences you will have. Maybe medical professionals you need a drug which will erase all past memories with disease, medicine, and medical professionals?
Too often doctors aren't learning from errors, and either are scientists in pharama. I think this is because injuries and death are often unreported and ignored. Doctors don't tell on other doctors and the pharmaceutical industry is certainly silent about a lot of things.
If doctors will ignore things like this: A few years ago I called a Las Vegas surgeon because I had hospital data showing which of his peers had high rates of surgical injuries – things like removing a healthy kidney, accidentally puncturing a young girl’s aorta during an appendectomy and mistakenly removing part of a woman’s pancreas.
By some estimates, medical errors are one of the leading causes of death in the United States. Physicians often see the mistakes made by their peers, which puts them in a sticky ethical situation: Should they tell the patient about a mistake made by a different doctor? Too often they do not.
Then it's easy for me to believe they are covering up more injuries made by vaccines than they tell you. Who knows the actual number of injuries and deaths from vaccines. Some parent might run to the doctor saying this happened because after the vaccine and it's all covered up after that, and probably not reported to anyone.
You just can't believe what doctors say anymore. As a consumer, I believe them less and less the more I consume.
For me it's always been things like, thinking a cyst is cancer and doing invasive testing, thinking a kidney stone is actually an ulcer and taking needless drugs for it. Thinking a viral rash is an allergic reaction and given steroids for it, when it would go away on its own.
I've been to doctors that tell me oh, I'm a MD, not a DO. They made a mistake because DO stands for DOG. Don't go to a DO anymore or you won't get good treatment. A doctor actually told me that when I went for a second opinion to him about a ganglion cyst.
So, when I hear all the reported injuries about vaccines are nonsense from a doctor, I don't believe him/her as much anymore. They have proven to lie over and over about their colleagues mistakes. Even helped them clean up the aftermath.
I think we forget, even if science is accurate, humans are not. They are the ones in front of the science, selling it, hiding it, and ignoring it when it makes them a profit or they are worried about their reputations and getting sued.
It would be better if they were just up front about it and admitted their mistakes. Paid a fee for the discomfort maybe. At least it would be honest.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sorry but she is hardly representative of most parents who make the decision not to vaccinate for this or that. She did zero research of her own and has major trust issues as she claims she doesn't even trust people in general. She excluded all research available from major reputable organizations? That's stupid and certainly not representative of people who make informed choices. I'm sorry but this is woman is kind of a moron and to use her as the example of how "anti-vaxers" make decisions is dishonest. She's an anomaly at best. It's not a decision most people make lightly nor is it a "coin toss" or one that's made without looking at a ton of information, most from what you'd consider to be reputable sources.