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Old 05-18-2017, 10:47 AM
 
28,163 posts, read 25,357,627 times
Reputation: 16665

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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
55 (56 at the end of the month) , if you really need to know
I do.

And this is why.

You began working and raising children in the early 80s when there were still plenty of jobs around. You had the ability to work your way up and keep your job for a long time. But today, we are losing jobs left and right due to automation and its only going to continue. At some point, we need to seriously reassess how we look at wages, healthcare, etc. because the old way just isn't working anymore.

 
Old 05-18-2017, 10:50 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,603,539 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
Yes, that's a nice thought.

Come back to real life for a moment. What happens to your argument in a completely libertarian society, where the only thing between your Mad Max tribe and the next is firearms? Society never cooperated, it fell apart, and every man for themselves became the rule of law.

You can pay into society for order and the rule of law, or you can make the best of it as Mad Max in a world where force is law.
Again, plenty better ways to help the poor than just give them money, and plenty ways to provide fund without putting people under the gun.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,368,086 times
Reputation: 20833
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
It's the old libertarian joke about wanting to take over the world and leave you alone...if there were enough of us, we'd just stop the people trying to coerce everyone and leave the innocent people alone.
Exactly! Speaking as a libertarian who voted for Johnson, but was delighted to see the Clintons handed their walking papers, the smartest move Trump could make would be to sit back, perform only the (mostly-ceremonial) duties with which he's charged and let the free markets clear up most of the imbalances under sensible Republican/Conservative management.

Improbable as it is, it's still the biggest fear of the Democrats' core clientele of grafters, loafers and thugs.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 10:57 AM
 
3,674 posts, read 8,675,155 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Exactly! Speaking as a libertarian who voted for Johnson, but was delighted to see the Clintons handed their walking papers, the smartest move Trump could make would be to sit back, perform only the (mostly-ceremonial) duties with which he's charged and let the free markets clear up most of the imbalances under sensible Republican/Conservative management.

Improbable as it is, it's still the biggest fear of the Democrats' core clientele of grafters, loafers and thugs.
You sound like a Republican shill.

In truth, that's all libertarians are. Whether a shill or an apologist, always a Republican.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 11:00 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,603,539 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
You sound like a Republican shill.

In truth, that's all libertarians are. Whether a shill or an apologist, always a Republican.
How does this in anyway help the discussion? If you only want to spill political hatred, go to a restroom, please.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 11:04 AM
 
7,519 posts, read 2,819,171 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
Are you telling me someone sold you your American citizenship, rights, and privileges?

Because that's how investing works. It also sounds like you were scammed.

Citizenship is very different.
Do you expect your government to use your tax dollars wisely without waste and fraud while receiving a benefit or return in the form of services such as police, fire, parks, roads, etc.? Is this not the same expectation held by shareholders? Don't boards and shareholders fire the ones at the top if the company or their funds are mismanaged? It is not that difficult of an analogy to understand if you weren't bent on having an internet pissing contest.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
11,027 posts, read 6,525,314 times
Reputation: 13259
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
that's all libertarians are. Whether a shill or an apologist, always a Republican.
Now that's just plain silly. Life is not black and white, and there are actually a lot of us who subscribe to specific policies of both parties without branding ourselves a member of either. That may be a concept far too mindblowing for a black and white thinker, I understand.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 11:11 AM
 
4,491 posts, read 2,232,029 times
Reputation: 1992
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
You sound like a Republican shill.

In truth, that's all libertarians are. Whether a shill or an apologist, always a Republican.
Well... yeah. The goal, or at least stated goal, of the Republican party is that of an ideal classical liberal world. Libertarianism is basically just the last vestige of classical liberalism.

Calling it a shill is a little harsh though.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,833 posts, read 19,534,499 times
Reputation: 9632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
I do.

And this is why.

You began working and raising children in the early 80s when there were still plenty of jobs around. You had the ability to work your way up and keep your job for a long time. But today, we are losing jobs left and right due to automation and its only going to continue. At some point, we need to seriously reassess how we look at wages, healthcare, etc. because the old way just isn't working anymore.
yes I began working in the 80's...actually in the 70's (first job at 16 was with White Castle)

but I didn't get married till 1992, my first born was 1994 (I have 5 kids ranging from 23 to 5)

there are still plenty of jobs out there... and automation is not taking them all away

took auto shop in HS
got a job at a dealer doing new car prep (mechanic background, but no experience)
worked my way to class c mech....to class b mech....to class a mech......to shop foreman....to service manager.....

have skills in home improvement (skills carpenter, skiled mason, skilled and licensed electrician, skilled plumber, and cabinet maker)
vehicle mechanics
transportation supervisor/expert
building maintenance supervisor
facility manager
EMT

I worked...worked hard....learned.listened..learned hard.....made some stupid choices too.......but i have made a good living for myself and my family

sorry but I am an optimist , not a pessimist...I see the glass half full, you seem to be a half empty type of person
 
Old 05-18-2017, 11:20 AM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,969 posts, read 18,965,269 times
Reputation: 22750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariatozz View Post
Why are so many Americans against social programs?
Synonymous Question: Why are so many Americans against coercion, economic slavery, and loss of individual liberty?
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