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Old 07-08-2017, 08:28 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,558,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
If all the employees are incompetent that probably means that they can't hire people who can do the job for what they are paying, ever think of that?
Yes, but that should be up to the consumers and the employers to decide, not you or the government you elect.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,247,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
Yes. That is the point of that statement. Hence, why a wage increase is without merit.
That's a nice spin but doesn't have anything to do with what I said. If the employees you are hiring for $9.00 an hour are all incompetent, an employer who cared about staying in business would probably offer $10 and see if better qualified employees applied for the job.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:47 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,558,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Here is a question, why do you think that fast food and retail workers are paid more than they are worth, when what they get paid has jack $#!+ for buying power as it is?

Two reasons they can't be paid more.

1. Value: their work generates very little value to the employers.

How much would you pay someone to sweep the floor? $1/hour, $15/hour or $50/hour? Let's say $50/hour for example. The next question is does the floor sweeper generates more than $50/hour value for you so that you have MONEY to cover that salary? If you can't sell his $50/hour floor sweeping to your customers for more than $50/hour, you are going broke very quickly.

Maybe to you, somehow you can do that and you are willing to pay $50/hour. Here goes the next reason.

2. Supply and demand: too many people can do their work.

Any Joe Blow can sweep the floor for you. If you ask Joe Blow 1, he may wants $50/hour, but JB 2,000 and JB 1,000,000 may just want $2/hour - they undercut each other.

Now as sane as you are, what do you do? Of course, you'd hire JB 1,000,000 and tell JB 1 to take a hike. Pretty soon, JB 1 will learn not to offer his service for $50/hour, even though he may need that money to saving his daughter life.


Once again, the wage is not decided based on the need of the employees. It can't be and shouldn't be. Please note only the "minimum wage" is forced upon us by violence, no other wages including yours are forced.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:47 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 1,604,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That's a nice spin but doesn't have anything to do with what I said. If the employees you are hiring for $9.00 an hour are all incompetent, an employer who cared about staying in business would probably offer $10 and see if better qualified employees applied for the job.
No "spin", just lterally, the point of the statement.
Okay, what does a single hypothetical employer possibly experimenting with wages and the influence net profit have to do with the conversation on minimum wage mandates?
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,247,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Yes, but that should be up to the consumers and the employers to decide, not you or the government you elect.
Ok great, eliminate the minimum wage and send employers a bill for the costs of every social service benefit received by their employees. At least the minimum wage somewhat mitigates the amounts taxpayers spend on the social service benefits of low wage workers. Can you imagine how much would our taxes increase if we had to pay out those benefits based on an hourly wage of $3 or $4 an hour
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:55 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,558,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Ok great, eliminate the minimum wage and send employers a bill for the costs of every social service benefit received by their employees. At least the minimum wage somewhat mitigates the amounts taxpayers spend on the social service benefits of low wage workers. Can you imagine how much would our taxes increase if we had to pay out those benefits based on an hourly wage of $3 or $4 an hour
If we send that bill to everyone, that would be wonderful! In case you don't know, we have been doing that for a very long time.

Employers except for churches don't use more resources than anybody else, but they pay more taxes than individuals.
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:02 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 1,604,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
If we send that bill to everyone, that would be wonderful! In case you don't know, we have been doing that for a very long time.

Employers except for churches don't use more resources than anybody else, but they pay more taxes than individuals.
Exactly. I assumed these concepts were common knowledge.
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,475,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That's a nice spin but doesn't have anything to do with what I said. If the employees you are hiring for $9.00 an hour are all incompetent, an employer who cared about staying in business would probably offer $10 and see if better qualified employees applied for the job.
skill equals value

and one other thing...KNOWLEGE of the going rate for your area based on said skill

if you are a mechanic making $22/hr and you are looking for a better job are you going to take an offer from another shop where they say "we'll start you at 16/hr"? the answer is no... you are looking for a better job.. you know that you have a degree, you know you have 10+ years of experience you would be stupid to take 16/hr when you know you are worth higher than your current 22/hr

as a maintenance supervisor with 30+ years of experience currently making 72k (35/hr) I would NEVER take anything lower, unless it was based on a partial ownership, or if it was where I am looking to retire to and the other benefits made it more worth my while


min wage is for UNSKILLED, its where you GAIN EXPERIENCE, not to stay for a career
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:13 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,448,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
uhm... those building and zoning codes are about safety

do you really want a 'home' built NOT to a standard...do you really want faulty plumbing, faulty electrical?

as a contractor, I am held to a standard.....and that standard of building codes is to insure quality of work for me, and quality of living for you


what are you wanting...shanty towns?

Safety is a subjective concept in this country. Minimum lot size requirements are not about safety - that's what setback requirements are for.

One could certainly argue that zoning and building codes harm the long-term health of the poor and the working class when inflated rents squeeze healthcare out of their budgets. (I'm surprised I have not seen this argument used previously.)
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,247,208 times
Reputation: 34039
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
If we send that bill to everyone, that would be wonderful! In case you don't know, we have been doing that for a very long time.
Employers except for churches don't use more resources than anybody else, but they pay more taxes than individuals.
Churches pay taxes?
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