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There's nothing wrong with these really rough schools other than they're being made rough by a lot of the students that go there. Take out those students and those schools would be just fine.
You guys keep avoiding the main issue here, which is those schools are made terrible by the disruptive and gangsta students with absent parents. Stop blaming the rest of society for crappy parenting.
I posit you and others are avoiding the main question: Why are certain groups of people like this? It doesn't happen randomly. There IS a reason for all of this. Yet when you try to discuss it you're accused of "making excuses" and "coddling" and "spoiling."
Let me ask you a question. Say you have two plants. One you make sure stays watered, you give it nutrients, make sure its planted in the right place and gets plenty of sunlight. The other you basically ignore. Sure you might water it and move it into the sun when you feel like it but overall, doesn't really get the care it deserves.
Which plant is going to thrive? Which plant isn't?
Why can we see the effects of inequality on something as insignificant as plants yet fail to see how the same inaction affects human beings?
Because you personally won’t give another dollar while asking others to pay up.
How much tax do you pay. Each year, my tax is over $53,000. Yes, you read that right. My tax is more than what you earn.
Who is the selfish one here? YOU!
Bull.
I've said here and on NUMEROUS other threads that I'd be HAPPY to have increased taxes if it meant every American had health insurance and every American had access to free, equal and quality education Pre-K to postsecondary.
Re: taxes
My SIL and her husband make over $300,000 per year. Their tax rate is nearly 50%. Yet they are liberals who believe everyone should have healthcare and quality education. They don't take issue with their tax rate but they do take issue with how its spent. So no, not everyone who pays high taxes thinks they are being "robbed at gunpoint."
A lot of the problems go back to the administration. We had a superintendent who rewrote the code of conduct to remove many of the most persistent violations and then tied the principals' hands on the execution of the offenses which remained. The school was as dangerous as I have seen it, and the conditions were bad district-wide. The school district slid into a morass that resulted in the most drastic interventions available, and now things are turning around. Our principal is doing a better job of establishing and maintaining order, and the building is mostly quiet and orderly. The district's shortage of teachers is more difficult to address, but a few bad teachers are gone, there just aren't any new good teachers to replace them.
The problem of rough students is best dealt with by a strong principal and a supportive administration. Our parents are just as criminal as the ones whose children you went to school with. Our rough students are too. It takes due process to get the students out, but our new principal is doing a good job of getting them out or suspending them until they get enough suspensions to be transferred to the alternative school.
I'm not avoiding the main issue, just facing the fact that it is the one which is most intractable. I would institute optional preschool education beginning at age two or three to help ensure that children whose parents are problematic would at least be in an environment where they are exposed to high-quality language experiences while learning to work in a group, follow directions, and eat healthy food, all factors which are frequently absent in home care among the very poor.
I'm glad that your parents were involved in your education despite your having to attend rough schools. Did you at least have teachers who were able to help you get a quality education?
Regarding problem students: Do you believe any course of action would assist them in becoming better students, better citizens? If so, what do you think would work?
Regarding problem students: Do you believe any course of action would assist them in becoming better students, better citizens? If so, what do you think would work?
I've said before that the early parenting support that some states have begun, including I think Missouri, can make the most difference in getting children to be ready for school. Early childhood education is provided in most industrialized countries for just those reasons. In the United States, early childhood is considered to be the parents' responsibility, so as usual, parents who don't care produce children who are unable to fully enjoy the public education they receive once they reach kindergarten age. Because of this mindset, many people don't want to include "free day care" because they perceive only its benefit to unfit parents, rather than the benefit that society receives from ensuring that the children of said unfit parents are able to be on grade level once they begin school.
In my state, Washington Post columnist and Pulitzer Prize winner William Raspberry dedicated his time and resources to such an early childhood initiative that he began in 2003 in his hometown of Okolona called Baby Steps. We met several times over the years and exchanged correspondence that ended with his death in 2012. I believe that the program is still operating helping young families start their babies out on the pathway to educational excellence.
Ultimately, MetroWord makes the most cogent point. Without proper parenting, all the educational services in the country won't get all kids on track. But without trying, we will continue to worsen until the point where public education won't exist again. Some, including Diane Ravitch who was once Undersecretary of Education in the G. W. Bush administration, think that the complete privatization of public schooling is the end goal.
One course of action that has not proven fruitful is the over-reliance on testing and the concomitant test prep and remediation industries, all of which have powerful lobbies and friends among the privatization movement. Every time another program comes along, I wonder what the cuts and kickbacks were and to whom they were paid.
I've said before that the early parenting support that some states have begun, including I think Missouri, can make the most difference in getting children to be ready for school. Early childhood education is provided in most industrialized countries for just those reasons. In the United States, early childhood is considered to be the parents' responsibility, so as usual, parents who don't care produce children who are unable to fully enjoy the public education they receive once they reach kindergarten age. Because of this mindset, many people don't want to include "free day care" because they perceive only its benefit to unfit parents, rather than the benefit that society receives from ensuring that the children of said unfit parents are able to be on grade level once they begin school.
In my state, Washington Post columnist and Pulitzer Prize winner William Raspberry dedicated his time and resources to such an early childhood initiative that he began in 2003 in his hometown of Okolona called Baby Steps. We met several times over the years and exchanged correspondence that ended with his death in 2012. I believe that the program is still operating helping young families start their babies out on the pathway to educational excellence.
Ultimately, MetroWord makes the most cogent point. Without proper parenting, all the educational services in the country won't get all kids on track. But without trying, we will continue to worsen until the point where public education won't exist again. Some, including Diane Ravitch who was once Undersecretary of Education in the G. W. Bush administration, think that the complete privatization of public schooling is the end goal.
One course of action that has not proven fruitful is the over-reliance on testing and the concomitant test prep and remediation industries, all of which have powerful lobbies and friends among the privatization movement. Every time another program comes along, I wonder what the cuts and kickbacks were and to whom they were paid.
What do you think might make a difference?
I agree with you completely on early childhood education.
As I've said earlier in this thread, I think having quality programs that reach out to these troubled youths would help. I'm thinking things like counseling, life skills, esteem and team building activities would help. There must be some way to reach the troubled youth and show them that their parents' way isn't the right way. I have numerous friends who are teachers and one of the biggest issues they face are weekends and holidays because kids from bad families DO want to do well. Teachers reach them during the day but then they slip slide back after spending time with their families. I believe the core issue we have to teach troubled youth is how to succeed despite their upbringing.
I posit you and others are avoiding the main question: Why are certain groups of people like this? It doesn't happen randomly. There IS a reason for all of this. Yet when you try to discuss it you're accused of "making excuses" and "coddling" and "spoiling."
Let me ask you a question. Say you have two plants. One you make sure stays watered, you give it nutrients, make sure its planted in the right place and gets plenty of sunlight. The other you basically ignore. Sure you might water it and move it into the sun when you feel like it but overall, doesn't really get the care it deserves.
Which plant is going to thrive? Which plant isn't?
Why can we see the effects of inequality on something as insignificant as plants yet fail to see how the same inaction affects human beings?
So you want the state to raise the children instead of the parents?
There is nothing preventing the parents from "watering" their kids. Stop blaming society for crappy parents that won't "water" their kids.
It would be interesting to see how things would look if people actually understood that getting an education was the only way out of poverty, and the ability to get an education was entirely dependent on how you behave. There would be losers of course, but I'd like to think the majority of the population would eventually see education as a privilege rather than a right.
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