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Old 12-25-2017, 08:41 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 1,552,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
And those 31 dog bite fatalities were 71% of all dog bite fatalities. Which, once again, given that they're only 6% of all dogs, means that they're a violent breed.
Math fail.

Pit bull attacks that resulted in death: 22.

# of pit bulls in the U.S.: Millions.

A Dose of Reality

 
Old 12-25-2017, 08:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
I'm sorry but it is you who are missing the logic.

You said, once again, "it's basically impossible to deny that pitfalls are bred and trained for violence, on average."

We're talking about a breed, not individuals. As a breed - and as you already admitted - pit bulls on average are bred and trained for violence. The statistics back this up. Now there are certainly going to be some individuals that aren't violent, but then, there are probably also going to be some Australian shepherd dogs that aren't good at herding sheep. But since, on average, pit bulls were bred for violence, on average they're going to be more violent than other dogs. Just as, on average, Australian shepherd dogs are going to be good sheep herders.

What really gets me about this whole issue is, with hundreds or even thousands of dog breeds to choose from, why do some people insist on defending this one particular breed with such a (deservedly) bad reputation? As I said it's like some people are gluttons for punishment.
Yes, "bred and trained." Notice that I did not say that pit bulls are violent by nature. How many times do I have to point this out?

What really gets me about this whole issue is, with hundreds or even thousands of dog breeds to choose from, why do some people insist on vilifying an entire breed when most of the individuals belonging to that breed kill no one? As I said, some people just want to demonize, no matter the faulty logic.
 
Old 12-25-2017, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,871 posts, read 9,536,978 times
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I'm sorry but it is YOUR math which has failed - miserably.

You're looking at pit bull #'s in isolation. This is a convenient thing to do if you don't want to be reminded, on average, how violent they are compared to other breeds ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
Statistics are basically impossible to deny that pit bulls and related breeds are violent. No way to get around it:
https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-st...ities-2016.php

"31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population."

When 6% of the dog population is responsible for 71% of dog bite related fatalities, then yes, that my friend is a violent breed, on average.
... Yes, there were "only" 22 deaths from pit bull bites in 2016, out of millions of pit bulls. But all other dog breeds combined, which number almost SEVENTEEN TIMES the number of pit bulls, only accounted for 9 deaths!
 
Old 12-25-2017, 08:51 PM
 
26,639 posts, read 36,722,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
I get what you're saying. I've known that about cocker spaniels, too--but they aren't as powerful as pit bulls, which is why it is so important for the U.S. to ban backyard breeding, puppy mills, and pet stores (who get all their puppies from the puppy mills). I had a friend from Germany visiting once and she was shocked at all the dog shelters and homeless animals. Apparently, in Germany, if you want to breed dogs, you have to go through an apprentice program with a legitimate breeder of a particular breed, and then there is a limit on how many dogs you can own and litters you can breed. Puppy mills don't exist, and homeless animals are few and far between.
I am definitely against backyard breeding (one of the biggest cottage industries in my state of Alaska) and puppy mills. Sometimes I think many of the commercial mushing kennels are just as bad. The U.S. could definitely use that sort of program.
 
Old 12-25-2017, 08:55 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 1,552,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
I'm sorry but it is YOUR math which has failed - miserably.

You're looking at pit bull #'s in isolation. This is a convenient thing to do if you don't want to be reminded, on average, how violent they are compared to other breeds ...



... Yes, there were "only" 22 deaths from pit bull bites in 2016, out of millions of pit bulls. But all other dog breeds combined, which number almost SEVENTEEN TIMES the number of pit bulls, only accounted for 9 deaths!
Nope. It's your math, pal. And they are not violent by nature, compared to other breeds. Keep posting stupid, but I'm out.
 
Old 12-25-2017, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,871 posts, read 9,536,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
Nope. It's your math, pal. And they are not violent by nature, compared to other breeds. Keep posting stupid, but I'm out.
If they were not more violent by nature than other breeds, they would not have disproportionately killed more people than other breeds.
 
Old 12-25-2017, 08:58 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 1,552,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I am definitely against backyard breeding (one of the biggest cottage industries in my state of Alaska) and puppy mills. Sometimes I think many of the commercial mushing kennels are just as bad. The U.S. could definitely use that sort of program.
Right?? I'm sure that there are mushers who treat their dogs right, but I've heard of there being real problems with some of them. Of course, when humans can breed and use animals any way they want, there are bound to be plenty of horrible humans involved. Pretty much the case whenever anyone vulnerable is involved (children in day care centers, the elderly in nursing homes, etc.): seems to bring out the worst in the worst of humans.
 
Old 12-25-2017, 08:59 PM
 
19,844 posts, read 12,102,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
It most certainly is true. That site is somebody's blog, full of misinformation, and with a clear bias against pit bulls.

If backyard breeding and puppy mills were made illegal, a lot of the problem would go away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
Math fail.

Pit bull attacks that resulted in death: 22.

# of pit bulls in the U.S.: Millions.

A Dose of Reality
So you link to a site with a clear bias towards pit bulls. So obviously biased that they use decades old statistics in addition to flat out lies in an attempt to deceive.

2)...Considering that there were an estimated 53 million dogs in the US, and assuming that pitbulls make up 10 percent of that population…

Flat out lie. They intentionally inflate percentages. It is impossible for pit bulls to comprise 10% of the dog population as they are not even in the top 10 breeds and there are 100’s of breeds in the US.

3) Over the 37 year period from 1965 to 2001, pitbulls have been blamed for an average of 2.48 human fatalities per year.

Why do they include statistics from 52 years ago and very obviously avoid the past 16 years of maulings?

Last edited by shadowne; 12-25-2017 at 09:11 PM..
 
Old 12-25-2017, 09:01 PM
 
3,187 posts, read 1,509,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
Clearly, you haven't read any of the information that's been posted here. I'm not being an "apologist." I'm simply being factual and realistic. There were 31 dog bite fatalities last year, by pit bulls and Rottweilers (both breed lines ruined by dog fighters and backyard breeders). Yet there are millions of pit bulls in the U.S. Hmmmm.
31 fatalities is a lot. I also wonder how many people lived but are scarred for life or disabled.

Pit Bulls killed 24,000 pet dogs and 13,000 cats in 2015. These are only the cases REPORTED. There are thousands more, I am sure. This figure doesn't include docile farm animals that they also kill.

This is SICK. You said yourself that they should only be obtained by going to responsible breeders. Then only allow ownership with a permit showing it came from a reputable breeder. If a person is willing to take those steps (not much different from a Spay/Neuter requirement from a shelter) there shouldn't be an issue with being a responsible owner. It's just too out of control at this point and I support something being done.

Pit bulls killed 24,000 other dogs & 13,000 cats in 2015
 
Old 12-25-2017, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,871 posts, read 9,536,978 times
Reputation: 15593
^
Great link!

Quote:
The most consistent number from year to year has been that 93% of the reported dog attacks on other animals in 2013 were by pit bulls; 82% in 2014; and 88% in 2015.

Cumulatively, pit bulls have since 2013 accounted for 87% of the reported dog attacks on other animals, including 96% of the fatal attacks on other dogs.
EDIT: Also read the comment by "Sara" below the article.
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