Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-21-2018, 06:10 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,046 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
No, it proves there is a correlation...which is a good sign for the NRA types, but that's all.
It proves, definitively, that increased gun ownership DOES NOT result in higher crime rates. In fact, it proves, definitively, that the EXACT OPPOSITE is true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-21-2018, 06:15 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,402,596 times
Reputation: 9438
Here is another chart:
Attached Thumbnails
Florida lawmakers vote to label porn a ‘public health risk’, after refusing to consider an assault weapons ban-chartoftheday_3672_americas_insane_rate_of_gun_homicide_in_perspective_n.jpg  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2018, 06:18 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,046 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
Here is another chart:
Eliminate the gangbanger killings in strict gun control law cities/states via felons who legally aren't supposed to have guns anyway, redo the chart, and get back to us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2018, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA.
5,735 posts, read 3,254,973 times
Reputation: 3147
kind of like to many liberals in California politics. that is the real problem.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Tominftl View Post
Too many Republicans in Florida politics. That is the real problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2018, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,354,716 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It proves, definitively, that increased gun ownership DOES NOT result in higher crime rates. In fact, it proves, definitively, that the EXACT OPPOSITE is true.
I'm gong to post this stuff again:

Results. Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio = 1.009; 95% confidence interval = 1.004, 1.014). This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%.
American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

Unfortunately, they won't let me see how they did the study unless I pay for it.

Again, I don't know they did the study, but one issue I could see with your example is that ALMOST ALL crime has been decreasing. Personally, I would hazard a guess that's because of increased internet access giving the sociopaths more safe outlets for their destructive urges, but that's just a guess. I don't have any evidence to back that up. Your graphs only show that crime has decreased with time, and the number of guns has gone up. It hasn't focused on why crime might have decreased much.


Also, here's a study that says that right to carry laws increase rape, robbery, and aggravated assault:
In addition to aggravated assault, the most plausible state models conducted over the entire 1979-2010 period provide evidence that RTC laws increase rape and robbery (but usually only at the .10 level).

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2443681

It's quite long, if you open the PDF through clicking the "open PDF in browser" option, but here you can see the whole study. It's 108 pages. I swear it let me look at it once. I pushed the back button though, and now it's not letting me see it again.

Not how none of that stuff necessarily claims the results of your study to be incorrect. Both your graphs and my studies could be correct. The Center for Disease Control, where you got your information, seems like it would be pretty trustworthy.

Note how, in your graphs, the amount of guns per person has steadily risen, but the gun-related deaths and injuries plummets dramatically in about 1994-1998, and from that point on, it remains relatively stable, on average continuing to drop a little, but even going back up once in awhile. That much more stable part of the graph is taking place after the number of guns has been skyrocketing. Here's your link again: //www.city-data.com/forum/50136319-post249.html

Something else might have happened in that 1994-2000 time period that caused that.

Now here's Pew research data about lowering crime rates in general between 1993 and 2016:

Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 48% between 1993 and 2016. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span. (For both studies, 2016 is the most recent full year of data.) It’s important to note that the FBI reported a 7% increase in the violent crime rate between 2014 and 2016, including a 20% rise in the murder rate —from 4.4 to 5.3 murders per 100,000 residents. The BJS figures do not show an increase in the violent crime rate between 2014 and 2016, but they do not count murders. The BJS figures for 2016 also reflect a survey redesign, making it difficult to compare directly to prior years.


2Property crime has declined significantly over the long term. Like the violent crime rate, the U.S. property crime rate today is far below its peak level. FBI data show that the rate fell 48% between 1993 and 2016, while BJS reports a decline of 66% during that span. Property crime includes offenses such as burglary, theft and motor vehicle theft, and it is generally far more common than violent crime. There was no documented increase in the property crime rate between 2014 and 2016.

5 facts about crime in the U.S. | Pew Research Center


Regarding when I mentioned that something else might have led to the sharp reduction in gun deaths throughout the 1990s, here's a link I found interesting:
http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...yCrime2004.pdf

It discusses four of what the author sees as the most likely causes of the sharp crime reduction, and six reasons that probably had little to do with the sharp crime reduction.

The four reasons it suggests for the reduction are:

#1: more police. In the 1990s, according to the link, the amount of police per capita increased 14%

#2: a dramatically increasing prison population. In about 1980 there were about 150 adults per 100,000 in prison. By 2000 there were about 500 adults in prison per 100,000, so perhaps haven't been getting better...we've just been keeping more of the undesirables in prison for longer so they can't behave poorly.

#3: The receding crack epidemic. In 1985 the crack market grew rapidly, leading to lots of gang violence in competition with rival crack-sellers. A study mentioned briefly in the link described 25% of murders in New York in 1988 as having something to do with crack, almost always relating to its distribution rather than people under its influence murdering for drug money or because of its psychological influence on them. So, basically there were just lots of crack-selling gangs killing their competition. The link does briefly mention a couple more old studies, but also mentions there's very low amounts of data to back up this idea.

#4: The legalization of abortion in 1973. By the 1990s the people that were aborted in 1973 would have just been getting into that most potentially violent stage of their life: young adulthood/late teen years. Instead, they don't exist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2018, 08:13 AM
 
25,850 posts, read 16,537,070 times
Reputation: 16028
There is no way they should talk about any additional weapons rules without addressing the breakdown of order and morality in the family. Any one of my children from 16 up could have been trusted with guns with absolutely no risk to society. We have to stop with the ridiculous band aids and address the real problems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2018, 08:19 AM
 
3,564 posts, read 1,923,920 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
No, it proves there is a correlation...which is a good sign for the NRA types, but that's all.
This poster is not able, or willing, to grasp basic statistical concepts.

There is no point in further engaging this poster along these lines.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2018, 01:25 PM
 
Location: NY, NY
1,219 posts, read 1,756,591 times
Reputation: 1225
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That's because guns AREN'T the problem. Time to remind everyone, again, that the FACT is that as the gun ownership rate increased by 50%, the gun homicide rate DECREASED by 50%, and the nonfatal violent gun crimes rate DECREASED by 76%.

Info in this post in another thread:

Post #249
Interesting data from 1993, when crime all over the US began a long and steady decline.


Quick question, what is the increase/decrease in the number of mass shootings since 1993? That is a number that would shed a lot more clarity on the recent mass shootings in the US.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2018, 01:27 PM
 
Location: NY, NY
1,219 posts, read 1,756,591 times
Reputation: 1225
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No, they're FACTS. I realize the left is anti-science and all about embracing and glorifying irrational emotions, but come on... really?

Te remind you and all the other lefties who are anti-science:

Guns AREN'T the problem. Again, the FACT is that as the gun ownership rate increased by 50%, the gun homicide rate DECREASED by 50%, and the nonfatal violent gun crimes rate DECREASED by 76%.

Info in this post in another thread:

Post #249
This is sarcasm, right? Please say yes because this makes no sense otherwise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2018, 01:30 PM
 
Location: NY, NY
1,219 posts, read 1,756,591 times
Reputation: 1225
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It proves, definitively, that increased gun ownership DOES NOT result in higher crime rates. In fact, it proves, definitively, that the EXACT OPPOSITE is true.
Then please explain the lack of mass shootings in Australia only AFTER they banned assault weapons?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:41 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top