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If there are problems with rocks I am sure the bucket will disappear. By the way; should we trust these "Emotionally/Socially Disabled" with books in their hands?
I am not a proponent of guns in the hands of teachers because, like you, I see/anticipate problems. So what is left? Give us your ideas - hopefully ideas that can work before the next shooting.
For bolded: No, but we do. By federal law under IDEA.
I have thrown out ideas, actually what I've, in my more or less professional capacity, recommended, what I've seen implemented and what should be implemented.
Some recommendations are just plain unworkable, like the bucket o' rocks. Some, like, one entry point which is secured and has been implemented in a lot of places. Some, while sounding good, like metal detectors, would fall down in practice. Or rather, that would work but you'd have to lengthen the school day in order to accommodate the time factor.
We did an ID slide for students upon entry for a couple years with no time adjustment. There was not one day we weren't writing late passes for the last few dozen kids. Which caused downstream problems with the teachers who wouldn't excuse the tardy (that was an Admin problem that the Principal and VPs didn't want to handle. Which is another thread entirely.
The decision to have armed SROs in the building is a School Board and law enforcement agency issue tied into budget. There was money 20 years for that from the Feds. There still is some but much less. Local police agencies, especially small ones, don't want to, in many cases, dedicate an officer for the schools. And remember, even in small systems you're likely talking at least two school buildings, maybe more if the district is geographically large. The small rural system I attended in PA has 4 buildings, 3 elementary and one Jr./Sr. high school. That's 1/4 of the local police department's staff if you include the part timers. Loaded cost for those officers is probably $80K+ (I know what the loaded cost for a Deputy in my semi-rural county in Maryland is, $112K).
If the shooter is a student or former student, he will know where the "Alamo" is and will just wait there.
I worry because of the Parkland incident. You get students in motion with an active shooter and it is hard to predict the outcome. Cruz had pulled the fire alarm which did the same as moving students from a less secure to a more secure location. Then we always could have the problem that the shooter ends up inside the "Alamo".
For bolded: No, but we do. By federal law under IDEA.
I have thrown out ideas, actually what I've, in my more or less professional capacity, recommended, what I've seen implemented and what should be implemented.
Some recommendations are just plain unworkable, like the bucket o' rocks. Some, like, one entry point which is secured and has been implemented in a lot of places. Some, while sounding good, like metal detectors, would fall down in practice. Or rather, that would work but you'd have to lengthen the school day in order to accommodate the time factor.
We did an ID slide for students upon entry for a couple years with no time adjustment. There was not one day we weren't writing late passes for the last few dozen kids. Which caused downstream problems with the teachers who wouldn't excuse the tardy (that was an Admin problem that the Principal and VPs didn't want to handle. Which is another thread entirely.
The decision to have armed SROs in the building is a School Board and law enforcement agency issue tied into budget. There was money 20 years for that from the Feds. There still is some but much less. Local police agencies, especially small ones, don't want to, in many cases, dedicate an officer for the schools. And remember, even in small systems you're likely talking at least two school buildings, maybe more if the district is geographically large. The small rural system I attended in PA has 4 buildings, 3 elementary and one Jr./Sr. high school. That's 1/4 of the local police department's staff if you include the part timers. Loaded cost for those officers is probably $80K+ (I know what the loaded cost for a Deputy in my semi-rural county in Maryland is, $112K).
I know that many of us have been discussing possible plans to stop this wave of violence. I do not want to diminish any plan. If I have a goal; it is to stop the next shooting. To me I feel that the victims stopping any active shooter would send the strongest message. I acknowledge that has yet to happen and may never happen.
When I worked in in the pharmaceutical industry we had about 3,000 employees daily and the slide access was no problem. But they drove to work and did not arrive by bus - their arrival was stretched out.
I did mention taking an armed security guard, that we are already paying for, and move them out of Federal building that have never had any problems - like the Social Security buildings. We could use existing trained armed personal to protect our young and they are already paid for with Federal money. It is just a matter of getting our politicians on the band wagon.
I know that many of us have been discussing possible plans to stop this wave of violence. I do not want to diminish any plan. If I have a goal; it is to stop the next shooting. To me I feel that the victims stopping any active shooter would send the strongest message. I acknowledge that has yet to happen and may never happen.
When I worked in in the pharmaceutical industry we had about 3,000 employees daily and the slide access was no problem. But they drove to work and did not arrive by bus - their arrival was stretched out.
I did mention taking an armed security guard, that we are already paying for, and move them out of Federal building that have never had any problems - like the Social Security buildings. We could use existing trained armed personal to protect our young and they are already paid for with Federal money. It is just a matter of getting our politicians on the band wagon.
For social security guards here, they use some 80 year old guy who can barely walk. He would not be much help anywhere.
^^^^We live in a free society. We will never able to guarantee safety, and security anywhere, just strive to do the best we can. There will always be criminal, and the mentally ill. They will sometimes be violent. We can mitigate the risk by arming ourselves, and doing other things.
Fisheye, you are in the Poconos, No? I am in Chester County. Howdy!
I had attended Pennsylvania Military College in Chester that, I believe, is now Brandywine. Yes; I am in the Poconos.
I have lived my whole life without fear and I have always had guns around. Although I have not been an NRA member for years; I do understand the need for the NRA. If you go back forty or fifty years the NRA backed sportsmen; but they moved away from the sportsmen towards the more military weapons. That might eventually take them down a notch. We have to wait and see how this plays out. One or two more school shootings before the year lets out could be a game changer.
IMO, I bet someone would think hard about busting into a room where they have something heavy enough to kill the shooter.
We have students traveling to DC to protest against guns. I would rather see students selected to aid our security at the schools. The more we can bring them into the fold; the more they can also become the eyes and ears of the school. It would also empower them. Anybody that is close to a potential active shooter, that has a duffel bag or backpack, has the potential to stop the shooting. But they would need training. We currently have HS wrestlers and football players and it is not too far a reach of the imagination to think they could easily be trained for a quick response (if in the right place at the right time). Of course they and their parents would have to be aware of the dangers of that training - but it might even lead to a career in law enforcement?
We have students traveling to DC to protest against guns. I would rather see students selected to aid our security at the schools. The more we can bring them into the fold; the more they can also become the eyes and ears of the school. It would also empower them. Anybody that is close to a potential active shooter, that has a duffel bag or backpack, has the potential to stop the shooting. But they would need training. We currently have HS wrestlers and football players and it is not too far a reach of the imagination to think they could easily be trained for a quick response (if in the right place at the right time). Of course they and their parents would have to be aware of the dangers of that training - but it might even lead to a career in law enforcement?
Students, in many schools but not all (snitches get stitches) do bring concerns to the attention of staff. With the exception of only a couple instances at my last school kids were the ones who reported someone had a weapon (which ran the gamut from guns to knives to those little baseball bats to throwing stars to nun-chuks). At my previous school we didn't know the kids had anything until it was pulled out. Well, I did get an Uzi from a kid when his gym bag clunked. That was the school where we had a kid shot and killed in front of the main office, I mentioned that in another thread.
You run into a couple problems "training" students as responders. The main one, they're students who are underage.
As for football players and wrestlers, they're the ones who panic and cry during fire drills. We had a minor earthquake (I think you felt it) a couple years before I retired. The particular class it happened during was overloaded with athletes. Big ones with arms like tree trunks. They curled up into balls and cried. One froze and wouldn't leave when we evacuated, it took three of us to carry him out.
Last edited by North Beach Person; 03-25-2018 at 12:40 PM..
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