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And some of them still have to drop their pants to count past twenty.
Agreed, a post-industrial society is capable of providing everybody's basic needs, and an abolition of the "Korporate" sham known as "straight salary" is overdue. Extra effort should mandate extra pay on relatively short notice -- not some one-sided "performance review".
But some people simply lack the foresight and/or discipline to pull their weight; and they don't deserve any say in the productive process, either, because they are usually the first to buy into the Marxist snake oil.
"From each according to his ability, and to each according to his needs" never worked, and never will.
Since there is no private property under Marxism I don't think a man can have ability or needs. It would belong to the collective if they even existed.
"Peace and Harmony"? COMMUNISM DEATH TALLY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_ki...munist_regimes
• USSR: 20 million deaths;
• China: 65 million deaths;
• Vietnam: 1 million deaths;
• North Korea: 2 million deaths;
• Cambodia: 2 million deaths;
• Eastern Europe: 1 million deaths;
• Latin America: 150,000 deaths;
• Africa: 1.7 million deaths;
• Afghanistan: 1.5 million deaths;
• the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power: about 10,000 deaths.
. . .
Approximately 94.36 million deaths in a span of a century.
Impressive! May even exceed Islam’s cumulative total of 270 million - someday.
. . .
Tears of Jihad (1400 years and counting)
Kafir Deaths (cumulative)
• Christians : 60 million
• Buddhists : 10 million
• Hindus : 80 million
• Africans : 120 million
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Total : 270 million (conservative estimate)
Source : www.politicalislam.com
A higher tally : 669+ million non-Muslims since 622 AD
Islam Has Massacred Over 669+ Million Non-Muslims Since 622AD
The official estimate number of Muslim slaughters of Hindus is 80 million. However, Muslim historian Firistha (b. 1570) wrote (in either Tarikh-i Firishta or the Gulshan-i Ibrahim) that Muslims slaughtered over 400 million Hindus up to the peak of Islamic rule of India, bringing the Hindu population down from 600 million to 200 million at the time.
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It takes a "special" intellect to ignore the death cult of Marx and condemn private ownership as something vile and abusive.
It may also explain the willingness of the USSR to rush aid to Muslims, in whom they found a kindred spirit.
That specific widget would not exist if not but for the existence of that specific man.
Ah, but this is not my problem. That's your problem. You are the one assigning the worth, the usage, and the length of time the widget will be away from the mountain man. Remember, some people buy bananas to eat them while others buy them to pray to them. Even if the company wants to take the widget for what they have in their minds as a specific time for a specific use in their emergency other circumstances may crop up that render using it for an extended time.
Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Just like when the State passes temporary edicts that arbitrarily extend "emergencies" in the name of "common good".
But at some point a decision will have to be made (I assume by a democratic vote of company men on site) when they're between a rock and a hard place to take the widget.
He's not a worker. He doesn't belong to your syndicate. Why must he negotiate? Who arbitrates in this scenario? Under what code is that arbitrator's decision valid?
Soooooo....slavery.
You keep saying this like it's no big deal but it's a huge deal. When that mountain man has that widget, relies on it, and has his system all worked out when you take it and cost him time, labor, any distress at all you've confiscated the fruits of his mind and body (he thought to build the widget and uses it). Maybe the mountain man doesn't know about the next factory town over. Are you suggesting a minimum knowledge requirement of all people inside and outside the syndicate?
That's slavery. You can't force me to know about that factory town a few miles away. I need that space in my mind to think about cutting wood, praying to my chipmunk god, or ramming my head into a wall.
Dude, this is statism of another flavor. You're merely exchanging the role of the traditional State for localized worker unions and their decisions.
It's just as horrible.
1. Usage is determined solely on usage. Once the immediate need for the item is accomplished extended use is not permitted
2. The mountain man doesn’t own anything, he uses them. Just because he does not work in a union does not give him special rights others don’t receive. Item usage is based on conversation. If there is a surplus supply of widgets else where then the union men must look there. If there is not then they need to explain their situation to him just as he would if he came down to town for some supplies. Now making the widget doesn’t give him eternal right to it. If a factory that produces a needed good for the community can’t operate and there are no widgets elsewhere then what right does the mountain man have to punish the rest of the community. You say it is his but its not, he can go receive a widget from anywhere else. Besides this situation shouldn’t happen.
Not slavery, freedom. People can work, fish, hunt, etc. whenever and however they want but they can’t horde tools of production. ‘Stuff’ isn’t what makes a person free, it is actions. Capitalism restrictes both supply and action to the majority while syndicalist both have the tools and the rights to act how they want. There is no authority that rules over then, just universal laws ever man should respect.
1. Usage is determined solely on usage. Once the immediate need for the item is accomplished extended use is not permitted
2. The mountain man doesn’t own anything, he uses them. Just because he does not work in a union does not give him special rights others don’t receive. Item usage is based on conversation. If there is a surplus supply of widgets else where then the union men must look there. If there is not then they need to explain their situation to him just as he would if he came down to town for some supplies. Now making the widget doesn’t give him eternal right to it. If a factory that produces a needed good for the community can’t operate and there are no widgets elsewhere then what right does the mountain man have to punish the rest of the community. You say it is his but its not, he can go receive a widget from anywhere else. Besides this situation shouldn’t happen.
Not slavery, freedom. People can work, fish, hunt, etc. whenever and however they want but they can’t horde tools of production. ‘Stuff’ isn’t what makes a person free, it is actions. Capitalism restrictes both supply and action to the majority while syndicalist both have the tools and the rights to act how they want. There is no authority that rules over then, just universal laws ever man should respect.
We've hit the wall again.
Another good one. At the very least I hope I'm the most agreeable petty tyrant you'll come across.
What theory has lifted more people out of poverty, with upward mobility?
Marxism?
or
Capitalism?
Individualism.
Capitalism is the natural default setting of a human being. Poverty is our natural state. We can either embrace the individual's right to live peacefully so he can pursue his interests via capitalism or we can create winners and losers at gunpoint via collectivism.
The far-left is pissed-off about unfair news coverage?
Don't worry, the Zapatistas don't see the media coverage. They're still so dirt poor after rejecting capitalist ideals 24 years ago they can barely afford to eat never mind have a TV set.
His followers like Lenin turned to authoritarianism and away from workers freedom but that is not on Marx.
That is because reality slapped them in the face.
Men have never come together except by force. This country cannot exist except by force. Nothing would exist without force.
Communism can exist only in a commune of maybe a couple hundred people. Anything beyond that requires coercion/indoctrination/propaganda/etc.
But in a Darwinian world, where the powerful rule, and the weak suffer, no system can survive unless it can defend itself. The only thing that can defeat power, is more power. And as a general rule, the bigger the state, the more powerful the state.
If the choice for any state is between power, freedom, and virtue. It must choose power. Nothing else matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
What theory has lifted more people out of poverty, with upward mobility?
Marxism?
or
Capitalism?
Is poverty the only measure?
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