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Old 06-09-2018, 11:02 PM
 
Location: TUS/PDX
7,825 posts, read 4,568,735 times
Reputation: 8859

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
Trump has been played. Nothing he agrees to is worth the paper his name is on.


Because a politician showed his country that he will stand up to the child like President. Trump says nah, nah na,na.nah I am going to take my signature away.

Child like.

This should help with NK. Nothing he agrees to is worth anything.
Excellent point. If I'm NK, why bother agreeing to terms with a man who 72 hours earlier backpedaled on another international agreement?
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,682 posts, read 5,532,541 times
Reputation: 8822
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
The fact that the United States is not isolated among the G-7 is what I am getting at.

And that is only the beginning, if push came to shove, Britain and Japan at the very least, are not going to abandon the United States. Italy cares about its relations with Russia, it almost certainly will care about its trade with the USA. Canada also, is only going to go so far.

In the end, that leaves just France and Germany.
Italy is only one voice in the EU and it is EU as a block which determines trade policy.

As far as the UK is concerned, Trump repeatedly embarrassed Theresa May at the G7 Summit. He didn’t even mention the U.K. when he listed who he considered to be the U.S.’s closest allies.

As far as Canada is concerned, I think we may be close to the point where no NAFTA deal seems economically less painful than the deal Trump is insisting on. Canada would force Trump to do the cancelling of the current deal though. I remember life before NAFTA. It’s not the end of the world and we have our new free trade agreements with the EU and the TPP countries.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:08 PM
 
7,489 posts, read 4,957,978 times
Reputation: 8031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuptag View Post
Good. Global trade is a race to the bottom. Maybe we can again focus on making goods not importing crap.
Funny thing though, tires and fake leather are made from oil, as is PVC and hair spray. The list goes on, and the USA relies on Canada for millions of barrels of oil per day. If the USA wants to make-local, the country has to have a global supply of all parts and components. It doesn't. The USA needs Canadian oil to thrive.

Importing cheap in the 1960s was stamped "Made in China". Does Trump want the population to return to "Made in China" quality while the elite skirt across the top like Putin and little rocket?
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,682 posts, read 5,532,541 times
Reputation: 8822
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
China is deliberately subsidizing both steel and aluminum to order to drive private companies overseas out of business.

Steel is used to build ships and tanks, aluminum is used to build planes. These are strategic materials. It is how the United States became the "arsenal of Democracy" in WW2. We cannot do that again if we do not have a domestic manufacturing base, not even if we rely on our Allies (such as Canada) but those Allies mysteriously cut off the supplies during a war.

Steel is also used in the auto industry, which is important to the domestic economy. Make no mistake, Trump did not randomly pick steel and aluminum out of a hat, this is the future of the US manufacturing industry. And with that the American defense industry and our independence.
Trump twittered just a few hours ago that the reason for the steel and aluminum tariffs was Canadian tariffs on DAIRY. I guess increased dairy exports are crucial to U.S. security.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...86562959093760
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:22 PM
 
Location: TUS/PDX
7,825 posts, read 4,568,735 times
Reputation: 8859
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Fair comments - but he came to the office more accomplished than most. In the real world - business.
You've inadvertently reveled one of the fundamental flaws in Trump worship, that BUSINESS is the do all, end all of American achievement.

Is not medicine the real world? Science in it's many forms, hard, research, heck, even political. What of engineering? Farming? Is career public service, such as law enforcement, military, community and government administration not the real world? I'd submit the arts and humanities are also part of the real world.

OK, Trump has been successful, but in a minor part of the entire endeavor of "business" and by no means singular in accomplishments in that field.

A well rounded, engaged and thoughtful in many disciplines does not a one-trick pony make.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:23 PM
 
2,305 posts, read 2,410,176 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Funny thing though, tires and fake leather are made from oil, as is PVC and hair spray. The list goes on, and the USA relies on Canada for millions of barrels of oil per day. If the USA wants to make-local, the country has to have a global supply of all parts and components. It doesn't. The USA needs Canadian oil to thrive.

Importing cheap in the 1960s was stamped "Made in China". Does Trump want the population to return to "Made in China" quality while the elite skirt across the top like Putin and little rocket?
The USA doesn't 'rely' on Canadian oil, it imports Canadian oil (made by an expensive shale to oil extraction process) because it is cheaper. Alaska oil, fracked oil can be substituted. Canada is entirely replaceable for the USA; Canadians delude themselves if they don't realize that.

Canada's best bet in this 'crisis' is to try to join the EU soonest possible; a second term for Trump and an unresolved NAFTA-replacement agreement would be devastating to Ontario and Ontario and BC are the only counterweights to the Saskatchewan, Alberta, Manitoba, and Yukon joining with QC possibly the Maritimes to break up the country. The only rational way the EU would let Canada in is if Canada agreed to use the euro.

Cheap imported goods in the 1960's were made in Japan and in the 1970's also in Taiwan (which was indeed stamped Made in China). The People's Republic of China was Terra Nulla as far as global trade mattered.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:26 PM
 
7,489 posts, read 4,957,978 times
Reputation: 8031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
Today he has shown that nothing he agrees to is worth the paper it is on. He was played.

The NK and Chinese have taken notes and will treat the child like Trump accordingly.
Trump is destroying relationships with allies and trying to build relationships with countries he doesn't understand (e.g.: Russia, North Korea).

Trump is making noise about extending the 6 month termination clause in NAFTA to 5 years sunshine clause while arguing that he wants an option to renegotiate. He already has an option to renegotiate every 6 months, so yes Asians will view him as a gibberish speaking buffoon. Plan to lose the deal.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Avignon, France
11,162 posts, read 7,969,781 times
Reputation: 28973
My money says that probably about 95 percent of you complainers don't know dik about foreign policy or trade. All you are doing is mimicking the talking heads here and the MSM's anti Trump agenda.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:34 PM
 
3,697 posts, read 5,000,542 times
Reputation: 2075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuptag View Post
You are correct. There isn't another PM of Canada; there isn't another Canada, or France, or Italy . . .

But there also isn't another USA and unlike Canada or France or Italy or pretty much anyone else in the industrialized world but Russia, the USA can close its borders, feed all its people, pump gasoline in every car, cure all the sick with medicines developed and made in this country, fly anyone from NYC to Hawaii on planes built in this country, supply enough lumber harvested in this country to fix every house, pour enough concrete to build any bridge, hang enough steel to build any skyscraper, print any book, defend its borders with any weapon ever conceived . . .

You are living in the greatest country and yet when American prosperity is exploited by our "allies" we should be 'diplomatic'?
Like all countries there are items that we don't have like oh rubber trees. Items we have grown used to having like lettuce in summer and tomatoes in winter that need to be imported and items we use so much of that we can't supply enough. For instance some oranges are imported because Florida can not produce enough oranges to supply the current demand for orange juice.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:38 PM
 
2,305 posts, read 2,410,176 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Italy is only one voice in the EU and it is EU as a block which determines trade policy.

As far as the UK is concerned, Trump repeatedly embarrassed Theresa May at the G7 Summit. He didn’t even mention the U.K. when he listed who he considered to be the U.S.’s closest allies.

As far as Canada is concerned, I think we may be close to the point where no NAFTA deal seems economically less painful than the deal Trump is insisting on. Canada would force Trump to do the cancelling of the current deal though. I remember life before NAFTA. It’s not the end of the world and we have our new free trade agreements with the EU and the TPP countries.
The EU has preferential trade deals with lost of other countries including former French colonies in Africa that are shedding migrants by the boatload on the shores of the EU and creating serious political domestic problems. I am going to venture that the EU will work hard to give the populations of those countries hope and change to stay home - incentives for new factories, help oil industry to develop, back-end services . . .

I don't think some roller bearing factory in Ontario will put a German roller bearing factory out of a job for a Dutch manufacturer. I don't think a Chrysler made in Mississauga will be bought by someone in Budapest. The EU is a mature market. You need to displace another competitor by a substantially better product, better price, or better service.
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