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Old 08-24-2018, 07:18 AM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I didnt see anywhere in the C-D terms of service where Im supposed to run my responses by you for validation.
Is your reality any more realistic? Everytime time you vote we get more of the same or worse.
I simply addressed your post with facts.
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:19 AM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,875,030 times
Reputation: 9117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/st...69466052538368


Just think, Bezos makes many times more than the average worker yet does not produce as much as they do. He should be paid less by the rules of input/output but because he controls the distribution of cash he makes the most.

Corporate CEOs generally lack basic trade skills that are needed to keep a society functioning and moral in nature, instead they are skilled at winning state subsidies, cutting financial costs that don't directly benefit their bottom line, and outsourcing production AND marketing. This is why when Obama or Trump selects one of them to help the US economy, they fail, because they have no real skills.

These concepts are basic yet everyone criticizes Bernie on this one tweet, why?
Edit somehow a duplicate post.
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:19 AM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
You want them to be paid the same as those who design the business model, engineers who develop the fulfillment process and facilities, those who design the website and software? Seems reasonable. People are paid at the price that their labor and efforts contribute to the business.
No one has made that argument. Address the arguments made.
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:25 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,972,696 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
No one has made that argument. Address the arguments made.
Fine, the people you mention don't add enough value to be "highly paid" because their labor is easily replaced since the supply far outstrips the demand. Is that the argument? If not, what is it?
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,425,885 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
What is the decision space of the "average" worker versus that of Bezos?
How big of an impact is the average workers decisions on the entire corporation?
What are the hours Bezos works compared to the average worker?

B era ie wouldn't know anything about running a successful business, after all he was a welfare guy who had his power shut off a few times, before being elected to public office. In other words he was a financial failure and I am being polite. A better term would be a complete loser.

Bernie has achieved relatively little in all his years as a public servant, winning that election did get him off the public teat. Well it moved him to a different one anyway.
I already explained this but you either labor with the capital at hand, or you don’t. The concept of managing money only has value in a profit based system, and even then they are not responsible with keeping the company functioning.

Just because you worked at the beginning doesn’t give you permanent control over the capital. Ownership is based on usage, and as far as I can see Bezos does not have the personal mental or physical abilities to control an entire capital base worth billions of dollars.

A free labor market would be one where profit does not incentivize work and management is handled democratly. Outcome will not be the same for everyone, but your input is only defined by your own work, not the work of others (like Bezos).
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,425,885 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
I don't have a problem, or even really know much about Bezos, other than his role at Amazon, and I use their service all the time. I'm a happy Prime subscriber.

That being said, your comment is missing a point. The point is that someone like Bezos (or Walmart, or many others) has power to make it "not that simple". They have been given such control over aspects of our economy, that it's not simple to avoid buying from Amazon and Walmart, and even if you do, it means your choices are very limited, and you will pay a higher price, and be at a disadvantage. That's a choice we all have to make, and I'm mostly OK with it. But to call it simple is either ignorant of facts, or just misguided.

These people have the influence to make small business owners, the poster children of the American Dream, be forced out of businesses they run to support their place in the American Dream, only to be hired back at low wages, with few choices. It is not because they did something wrong, it's because a company like that used their economic power to put them there, for their own benefit.

I'm no Socialist, so I don't want our government controlling the daily commerce of our country, or the jobs and wages people have, but the system is far from perfect. In my view, people like Bezos SHOULD be sharing their wealth more with all the people that were part of making it possible. They are not legally obligated to do so, but many feel they are morally obligated to do so. And equally important, it would probably be a better outcome for our economy, and our country for more people to have access to the American Dream. Bezos et all would not suffer, and MORE people would benefit. Or at least a lot of people have good reason to believe that.
Not necessarily true and not what I’m advocating for. Having worker managed production has nothing to do with letting the government control it (ideally, there would be no government), more so it has to do with allowing the free practice of labor.

Once you understand the difference between personal property and private property, we can realize production has nothing to do with the ownership of the capital (people who distribute wealth back to you) but the actual usage of that capital. From then on you’d have a Democratic workplace where management is handled by those who choose to work their.
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:41 AM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Fine, the people you mention don't add enough value to be "highly paid" because their labor is easily replaced since the supply far outstrips the demand. Is that the argument? If not, what is it?
The argument is not that they should be "highly paid".
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:44 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,972,696 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The argument is not that they should be "highly paid".
So I guess you would rather not help me out here so I can be more clear with my response for you?
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:47 AM
 
8,131 posts, read 4,324,505 times
Reputation: 4683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/st...69466052538368


Just think, Bezos makes many times more than the average worker yet does not produce as much as they do. He should be paid less by the rules of input/output but because he controls the distribution of cash he makes the most.

Corporate CEOs generally lack basic trade skills that are needed to keep a society functioning and moral in nature, instead they are skilled at winning state subsidies, cutting financial costs that don't directly benefit their bottom line, and outsourcing production AND marketing. This is why when Obama or Trump selects one of them to help the US economy, they fail, because they have no real skills.

These concepts are basic yet everyone criticizes Bernie on this one tweet, why?



I wish Bernie Sanders would just disappear, like Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders is nothing but rhetoric!
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:49 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,972,696 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by tillman7 View Post
I wish Bernie Sanders would just disappear, like Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders is nothing but rhetoric!
Couldn't agree more. I've always said they are just two liars on different ends of the political spectrum. Bernie spent all day bragging about stealing $27 per donor that he duped with his empty promises that he knew he could never deliver on.
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