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When decreasing pay started to become an issue, the answer was everyone needs to get a degree and a middle class income will follow. When college graduates ended up at Starbucks, they were ridiculed and called undeserving for getting degrees in "feminist literature"(actually business and social sciences are top majors) instead of STEM. Actually most STEM degrees don't mean a lot outside of medicine and engineering, both require degrees of aptitude that a limited number have. Technology workers may end up with millions but many are just average workers competeing with cheaper foreign labor. Everyone getting degrees didn't solve overall declining incomes and put people in debt. Now it's the trades, forget college and debt, get a skill. Many trades pay well but classes are filling up, will pay survive competition? They also destroy the body. I work in medicine and I see this everyday with plumbers, welders, construction, etc. Those with union benefits and pension should be okay but union aren't exactly thriving in the US.
If you look at any society, most people are worker bees and aren't naturally ambitious. Continuing to blame workers for not making themselves worth more, while constantly raising or changing the bar that defines worth is not going to lead anywhere good. I don't know the average age of a CD poster but I'm guessing many are not young and among those who are struggling to build a life in the global economy where the competition may be a third world worker who earns a few dollars a day. Some people come from little and achieve success through ambition and hard work. America was built on these people and it will continue to happen but it's much more difficult in today's economy. Huge multinationals are eating up smaller enterprises, monopolies are increasingly destroying the benefits of competition. Outside of very specialized skills that can demand more money, it's largely those in power decide what people are worth. They tend to decide that they are worth ever increasing amounts while workers are an expense to be cut.
I know a lot of very well off people who have a lot more connections than drive. I used to work in HR and saw the inner working of corporate America first hand. The CFO can't hire his own son, that would look bad and he doesn't have to. He can have his country club, golfing buddy hire his son for an 80K job just out of college and he will hire the golfing buddy's daughter. The world of the high and upper middle class is extremely insular. I would regularly have to help 22 year olds just out of college complete paperwork for near 6 figure jobs. Many did not know what an I9 was because this was their first job, but their connections put them on the executive path. They didn't work any harder than average and a lot of work was just socially using connections. I would see the top executives give themselves raises while saving money by laying off workers and forcing others to cover 2-3 jobs. The lower a worker is the more his pay is seen as an expense to be cut to bare minimum. Executive pay is seen as an essential to be enriched.
Many rich get richer because they have power and control policy through political donations. We don't have an actual free market where supply and demand determine costs and value. We have monoplies and corporate manipulation through the media and politics. As long as Americans stay distracted by arguing with each other and engaging in team politics, the people lose.
AMEN.
When I was at Berkeley during the late 60's the riots were going on and I was at a party. Yeah, there is a reason to party during a riot.
I was talking to this guy who was really proud about publicaly making known his "opposition" to the war. Well, as a immigrant to this country, with a working class father from a refugee from a Communist country the war was a tough issue for me. I suspect he cared more about being "cool" and getting laid than the war.
But I asked the "guy" if he wasn't worried about getting arrested and having a record that would make it difficult for him to get a job after graduation?
He looked at me like I was from Mars. His reply was direct and to the point...."My father will always hire me".
My father couldn't hire. It was likely that he would have a hard time even getting me a basic labor job.
I that point I knew I was different that my classmates. I had more to lose than them. There was no way I could compete with them. They had a the gold...and made the "golden rules".
For America to survive as America we need one set of rules for everybody. I am fed up and tired of political family dynasties and special favors for the ruling class.
There was a reason for the election results of 2016. I had friends ask...how could you vote for him?? You went to Berkeley.
My reply....I voted for him because I went to Berkeley.
We need more thinking, and less fighting. No one who perpetuates the partisan divide is a deep or complex thinker..................
What utter horsepooky.
Sometimes the other side is just wrong. "Deep thought" won't change that.
While you stand around scratching your chin, the rest of us will get on with life. And sometimes that includes fighting.
They come from similar families--two parent home, private high school, college paid for by their parents, etc.
One of them dropped out of college, then dropped out of junior college. She has jumped around from low paying job to low paying job. She has over 30 tattoos and neon green hair, multiple weird piercings, smokes and does drugs.
The other one is in a top engineering program at a top university, and has earned a scholarship. She studied abroad this past summer. She has secured prestigious internships. She is vegetarian and runs marathons.
Which young woman has a more successful life ahead of her?
Sometimes, it DOES come down to the choices you make.
I feel for people who are disabled, physically or mentally. I feel for the chronically ill. I feel for people who made wise choices but got caught up in bad situations. I feel for people born into crappy circumstances who don't know how to get out of them.
But sometimes people willingly throw away every opportunity with both hands. This country typically rewards people who show determination and a willingness to strive and work hard. If someone wants to waste advantages given to them, is it anyone's fault but their own?
Life is about choices - the issue is now that those who make poor choices want the same outcome as those who made wise choices. Sometimes it's not even a matter of "wise choices" - I have 2 children, both made the choices in life that they wanted - we support both and both are happy with their choice.
Both have Multiple degrees, both have equal IQ's and are committed to their jobs. Both in their early 40's. One owns their home and even has a previous home as a rental - one probably never will own their own home. We paid for the Education of both of them - the one who went to the "Elite University" knew that they better figure out a way to get a full scholarship and did exactly that.
One is an Engineer with a large family - he works 60 hours a week (home and office) and has a salary in the range of $160,000+ (I don't ask questions about salary, so it's a guess on both based on a few statements) - the other is a Teacher ( turned down a fast track PHD with top Universities in Scientific Research) - teaches High School in Urban Cities with high crime and has for years.
Salary is in the $70,000 range. I couldn't be prouder of each of them.
Both followed their "passion", both have fulfilling lives, both do really good work. One votes basically Conservative, one votes extremely Leftist. One attended a University in Texas, one attended an "Elite" University steeped in Liberalism. One of them wants to be the kind of Boss that Dad was - balance of work and family. One wants to push students to understand the World is open to them and they can do anything they choose IF they just believe in themselves.
I have no patience with those who want Equal Outcomes regardless of the Choices they made and I'm grateful that while my own children took very divergent paths -- they both understand it was THEIR CHOICE and that's as it should be.
Successfully doing what exactly.
The richest of the rich relative in our family is only so due to insider trading.
I didn't realize ...always thought and expressed it as " falling ass backward" into money. " lucked out", " hard worker, good job"...nope. Whatcha gonna do. That was 30 years ago, since passed away, But they had a rich 30 years didn they. Wise with their time? It all depends on your definition of " wise"... And I guess the American dream is based upon " who you know" not how hard you work. Enter Trump Russian Republicans.
He could do more with less ... fed 5000 people on 5 fishes and 2 loaves of bread. Does that sound like a Republican? A Republican would say, nope that's my fish and my bread, I'll let you have it, if you'll do something for me. And in the end, they'd have 5000 people fighting over one damn fish ... without a clue as to how to solve the conflict.
PS: A democrat would take a coin from each person that had a coin. Go down to the market, pick up the fish and bread; come back feed every one and say, look at would we did for you.
Jesus, was not political ... He was better than that.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 09-13-2018 at 08:31 PM..
Reason: PS:
"In our day and age it is tempting to complain that we have not received as much as someone else, but we can be sure that God Himself has given us the ability to care for what we have. In other words, we are responsible, and we are able!"
Is this not what some of us have been saying throughout this thread? That the wise person takes what abilities he has been given and works hard to bring them to fruition. He multiplies his blessings. The foolish person does nothing with his gifts. He buries them and they come to nothing more than he was given. We are to called to give an account of what we have done with our gifts; they are to be used to God's glory.
Scripture repeats this theme consistently.
Last edited by calgirlinnc; 09-13-2018 at 09:15 PM..
Life is about choices - the issue is now that those who make poor choices want the same outcome as those who made wise choices. Sometimes it's not even a matter of "wise choices" - I have 2 children, both made the choices in life that they wanted - we support both and both are happy with their choice.
Both have Multiple degrees, both have equal IQ's and are committed to their jobs. Both in their early 40's. One owns their home and even has a previous home as a rental - one probably never will own their own home. We paid for the Education of both of them - the one who went to the "Elite University" knew that they better figure out a way to get a full scholarship and did exactly that.
One is an Engineer with a large family - he works 60 hours a week (home and office) and has a salary in the range of $160,000+ (I don't ask questions about salary, so it's a guess on both based on a few statements) - the other is a Teacher ( turned down a fast track PHD with top Universities in Scientific Research) - teaches High School in Urban Cities with high crime and has for years.
Salary is in the $70,000 range. I couldn't be prouder of each of them.
Both followed their "passion", both have fulfilling lives, both do really good work. One votes basically Conservative, one votes extremely Leftist. One attended a University in Texas, one attended an "Elite" University steeped in Liberalism. One of them wants to be the kind of Boss that Dad was - balance of work and family. One wants to push students to understand the World is open to them and they can do anything they choose IF they just believe in themselves.
I have no patience with those who want Equal Outcomes regardless of the Choices they made and I'm grateful that while my own children took very divergent paths -- they both understand it was THEIR CHOICE and that's as it should be.
Excellent post and I really enjoyed your perspective on your children.
You illustrate what I am trying to say: a person is a success when they work towards something that fulfills them and benefits their family or their society...they contribute, and as trite as it may sound, they make a difference.
What utter horsepooky.
Sometimes the other side is just wrong. "Deep thought" won't change that.
While you stand around scratching your chin, the rest of us will get on with life. And sometimes that includes fighting.
I have nothing but respect for those who stand up and fight for their own well thought out opinions and values whether I agree with them or not. Fighting against those whom one feels would act against those values is important aspect of the democratic process and not what I am reffering to. Blind partisan loyalty, parroting talking points, and having little to offer but pat partisan answers to serious issues facing our country, (in the worst cases it will be combined with constant whining and insults toward the other side) is what show a lack of deep thought that is destructive.
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