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That's not what collectivism is. Collectivism is the subjugation of the individual for the benefit of the collective society, and it always fails because too much is taken from some and too little is contributed by others.
Two 20th century examples:
1) Stalin starved 20 to 25 million people (some say 40 million) to death by confiscating their agricultural produce and wealth and redistributing it to others. The subjugation of the individual for the benefit of the collective society.
2) The Nazis confiscated the Jews' wealth to fund their government and subsequently executed them because they no longer had any means of support. The subjugation of the individual for the benefit of the collective society.
Rulers throughout history have done a good job selling collectivism, unfortunately. They convince otherwise good people to advocate and support things they’d never do on their own.
The key is to distract people from the fact that violent force is potentially involved, and then paint the people who object to their master plan as selfish, anti-society, troublemakers, etc.
I’m in Vegas right now, so let’s go with 10 friends at a hotel...
A: We should order some pizza.
8 others: Sure, let’s do it.
B: No thanks, I’m not that hungry. You guys go ahead though.
A: Hey everyone, B doesn’t want to contribute to our party...I thought we ALL decided we’re getting pizza, right?
Others: Yeah, we did...
A: Hey B, why are you being difficult? Do you WANT us all to pay more for pizza?
B: Well no, but...
Others: Yeah, why doesn’t B have to pay?
B: I mean, I could chip in a couple dollars for you guys but I’m not gonna be eating any...can I just go back to my room for awhile if you’re gonna be like this?
A: Alright folks, it’s clear that B is trying to screw us over. If they don’t want to pay their fair share for the party, they’re free to check out of the hotel early and fly home.
Then if B doesn’t comply to the group, they take money from B’s wallet or lock B in the closet. “What violence? I don’t see any violence. Stop crying and do whatever A says like an adult, and you’ll have no issues.”
Seems pretty civil to me, right? The common good is served. The greatest good for the greatest number of people. It’s what’s best for society as a whole.
Rulers throughout history have done a good job selling collectivism, unfortunately. They convince otherwise good people to advocate and support things they’d never do on their own.
The key is to distract people from the fact that violent force is potentially involved, and then paint the people who object to their master plan as selfish, anti-society, troublemakers, etc.
I’m in Vegas right now, so let’s go with 10 friends at a hotel...
A: We should order some pizza.
8 others: Sure, let’s do it.
B: No thanks, I’m not that hungry. You guys go ahead though.
A: Hey everyone, B doesn’t want to contribute to our party...I thought we ALL decided we’re getting pizza, right?
Others: Yeah, we did...
A: Hey B, why are you being difficult? Do you WANT us all to pay more for pizza?
B: Well no, but...
Others: Yeah, why doesn’t B have to pay?
B: I mean, I could chip in a couple dollars for you guys but I’m not gonna be eating any...can I just go back to my room for awhile if you’re gonna be like this?
A: Alright folks, it’s clear that B is trying to screw us over. If they don’t want to pay their fair share for the party, they’re free to check out of the hotel early and fly home.
Then if B doesn’t comply to the group, they take money from B’s wallet or lock B in the closet. “What violence? I don’t see any violence. Stop crying and do whatever A says like an adult, and you’ll have no issues.”
Seems pretty civil to me, right? The common good is served. The greatest good for the greatest number of people. It’s what’s best for society as a whole.
B.S. analogy - Ordering Pizza for a group in a hotel room, is not covered under American Governance. ... as I said,... you don't understand by willful choice not to understand, American Democracy and the Governance System of America.
It's OK, because at any time you are certainly free to leave American Soil and its Governance...
B.S. analogy - Ordering Pizza for a group in a hotel room, is not covered under American Governance. ... as I said,... you don't understand by willful choice not to understand, American Democracy and the Governance System of America.
It's OK, because at any time you are certainly free to leave American Soil and its Governance...
The act doesn’t become any different just by calling it something else. It comes down to initiating force against the individual for the supposed good of the group.
The act doesn’t become any different just by calling it something else. It comes down to initiating force against the individual for the supposed good of the group.
B.S. analogy - Ordering Pizza for a group in a hotel room, is not covered under American Governance. ... as I said,... you don't understand by willful choice not to understand, American Democracy and the Governance System of America.
It's OK, because at any time you are certainly free to leave American Soil and its Governance...
What happens when the State hunts you down, kidnaps you, and imprisons you?
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,615,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Yes. A society can be a civil society without confiscating from only some to give to others who haven't earned it.
How?.....
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subjugation 
of the individual for the benefit of the collective society.
