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Hmmm...so I decided to actually read the bill. The bill doesn't overly change Virginia law on third trimester abortions. They are still allowed in Virginia but you have to have three doctors to agree. This bill proposes to change it to only having one doctor agree.
I have to ask how this is more evil than what we have today.
When the GOP had rule over Virginia they added several measures that would make it much more difficult for a woman in Virginia to obtain an abortion. Added requirements (now you need a transvaginal ultrasound, now you need to be in a "hospital", now you need this many doctors to approve rather than this many doctors). The bill attempts to remove barriers to an already legal procedure. In no way does it allow for a woman to willy nilly decide to terminate her pregnancy at 39 weeks because she doesn't want the child and I refuse to believe that ANY doctor would agree to such a thing.
I usually avoid threads on abortion like the plague. I've seen them get SOOOO ugly on here with some of the nastiest and vilest commentary I've ever seen. The smattering I have read here does not disappoint to such ends. At any rate what is being discussed here is NOT "abortion" or "a woman's right to choose." This makes infanticide on a live born baby now independent of its mothers body legal.
This does not "protect women from being forced to be incubators." It just makes killing a newborn that is breathing and crying a legitimate form of birth control. Yea. Makes sense to me. This just took a LOT of people off the fence on abortion rights. And rightly so methinks.
No. No one is advocating infanticide or making it legal.
I usually avoid threads on abortion like the plague. I've seen them get SOOOO ugly on here with some of the nastiest and vilest commentary I've ever seen. The smattering I have read here does not disappoint to such ends. At any rate what is being discussed here is NOT "abortion" or "a woman's right to choose." This makes infanticide on a live born baby now independent of its mothers body legal.
This does not "protect women from being forced to be incubators." It just makes killing a newborn that is breathing and crying a legitimate form of birth control. Yea. Makes sense to me. This just took a LOT of people off the fence on abortion rights. And rightly so methinks.
Can you explain how this bill differs from current VA law?
Can you explain how this bill differs from current VA law?
You can really tell that no one actually read the bill and how it differs from current VA law. I can respect differing opinions, but all this outrage over a change to an existing bill that already allows late term abortion just tells me these people aren't armed with facts. People are just spouting right-wing propaganda at this point.
They also don't realize that there are already a handful of states (including Colorado, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Alaska, and Vermont) that don't have any time limits on abortion and still, there are not women lining up at 39.5 weeks gestation getting abortions just because they can. This is not anything unprecedented.
We all know that if you give an inch, they will take a mile. There could be three doctors in one hospital. Its not that hard to get three doctors to see a patient.
Who is they in this scenario?
All women?
Liberal women? (because a conservative woman would never seek an abortion...cough cough BS cough cough)
We men (unless possessing DPA for healthcare for the woman in question and she is sedated and an immediate decision must be made) should butt out/have no ultimate say. The woman should have ultimate discretion over the decision.
I listened to the explanation provided and it was poorly delivered but does in fact being up something that is rarely talked about.
The scenario had a few key points that are important:
1. Birth is taking place in a safe space (no shady stuff here)
2. Child emerges from canal in distress
3. immediate resuscitation was required (response not mentioned) and sounds like it may be ongoing
4. The Doctor in the room is (my interpretation, explanation in video was poor) making the case to the mom that the child will likely not survive without major intervention or may be non-viable. Is discussing options with mom.
Again it was a poor explanation so I could have interpreted what was said wrong, but I think I know where it was going.
This is important because when children need constant intervention or medical care, parents may need to quit their job, provide 24 hour care, and depend on government and community resources to get by even if a spouse is involved. Annual medical bills for total care children can exceed $50,000 annually, with limited coverage from insurance for actual direct care from nurses and aids. I have seen some that take the role on head first and are truly amazing. I have also seen families fall apart, child placed in ALF's long term because the family cannot provide the necessary care. It is a tuff question and not one I would want to make for someone else. i prefer to stay out of these situations. I
I could go on and on with different situations that can be argued several ways but I don't think it would benefit the conversation. There is no way to have a simplistic view of this situation, too many factors to sort through. I don't agree or disagree, I am torn because I have seen first hand how much work it takes in these situation. Maybe if we had a real national debate i would hear some arguments to better solidify my view.
If the intent isn't to allow late term abortions then why make a bill allowing late term abortions?? I don't get it, am I missing something?? This bill actually eliminates all medical requirements for having a late term abortion so I don't understand this statement "It may be so that the bill does not prevent them in unique circumstances." If the bill strips away all medical requirements for an abortion than how would a unique situation even come into the equation, you're now taking away any and all restrictions which makes this a free-for-all at will late term abortion bill
"The bill eliminates the requirement that two other physicians certify that a third trimester abortion is necessary to prevent the woman's death or impairment of her mental or physical health, as well as the need to find that any such impairment to the woman's health would be substantial and irremediable. The bill also removes language classifying facilities that perform five or more first-trimester abortions per month as hospitals for the purpose of complying with regulations establishing minimum standards for hospitals."
Gilbert: No, I’m talking about your bill. How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated it would impair the mental health of the woman?
Tran: Or physical health.
Gilbert: Okay. I’m talking about the mental health.
Tran: Through the third trimester. The third trimester goes all the way up to 40 weeks.
Gilbert: Okay. But to the end of the third trimester?
Tran: Yep. I don’t think we have a limit in the bill.
Yes, you are missing what is in the actual bill. Please read it. It addresses second and third trimester abortions and does NOT strip away all medical requirements. Where are you getting that.
Third trimester abortions, aborting all the way to 40 weeks is already legal with tight restrictions. This bill only loosens some of those restrictions like requiring two additional consulting physicians to approve and striking some terms. The bill dose not impose any time restraints so those already stated by law apply. So this bill is not allowing or disallowing late term abortions, they are already allowed. It is loosening some restrictions. That is how I understood the bill and current abortion law.
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This just took a LOT of people off the fence on abortion rights. And rightly so methinks.
