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Both the left AND the right seek to impose THEIR will, beliefs, morality and dictates (even though the flavor of their Statism is different, it is still Statism) upon society on action or inaction which does not encroach upon the rights or property of another. This reason and this reason alone is enough for me to say, "I believe BOTH the left AND the right suck!"
But then again, that's just MY opinion, for what it's worth.
This is very true.
The left and the right are not ideologies, per se. They are cartels that serve a narrow set of clients, whether it's corporations on the right or labor unions or whomever on the left. Neither side is particularly interested in liberty except when it suits the needs of their own respective clientele.
It's a shame that slack-jawed bigots on certain media outlets keep ratcheting up divisive rhetoric, focusing on narrow topics in order to create and widen the split.
And now, their top spokesman occupies the White House. Instead of leadership, he offers only bigotry and hatred.
Your first sentence maintained the spirit of the OP's post. Too bad you couldn't keep it up after that.
I would say that most of us agree on many of the "ends." We all want clean drinking water, safe streets, high quality schools for our kids, commutes that are as painless as possible, effective leadership, a good economy, and so on and so on. It's the "means" to those ends which is where we differ, with the divisions that we see resulting from this.
Of course, there are also legitimate areas of disagreement in which common ground may be difficult if not impossible to achieve. The best that can be hoped for in cases like this is mutual tolerance: I'll put up with the stuff that you like but I don't, if you'll put up with the stuff that I like but you don't. And even with that, there are some things in which we simply aren't going to find common ground. (Abortion is one such area that comes to mind.)
But if we could all be civil and tolerant as we go about trying to achieve the ends that most of us agree on, I think we'd see a whole lot less division; and we'd be a whole lot more patient with each other even in the areas of intractable disagreement.
Your first sentence maintained the spirit of the OP's post. Too bad you couldn't keep it up after that.
I would say that most of us agree on many of the "ends." We all want clean drinking water, safe streets, high quality schools for our kids, commutes that are as painless as possible, effective leadership, a good economy, and so on and so on. It's the "means" to those ends which is where we differ, with the divisions that we see resulting from this.
Of course, there are also legitimate areas of disagreement in which common ground may be difficult if not impossible to achieve. The best that can be hoped for in cases like this is mutual tolerance: I'll put up with the stuff that you like but I don't, if you'll put up with the stuff that I like but you don't. And even with that, there are some things in which we simply aren't going to find common ground. (Abortion is one such area that comes to mind.)
But if we could all be civil and tolerant as we go about trying to achieve the ends that most of us agree on, I think we'd see a whole lot less division; and we'd be a whole lot more patient with each other even in the areas of intractable disagreement.
The civility issue began with Newt Gingrich and continues to the present with the rhetoric of the hate radio jocks and the current occupant of the oval office.
Yes, there's been some reaction and pushback from the left. What would anyone expect?
But in order to cool off, the fire that was lit by the radical right has to be brought under control, and it's far from there.
The civility issue began with Newt Gingrich and continues to the present with the rhetoric of the hate radio jocks and the current occupant of the oval office.
Yes, there's been some reaction and pushback from the left. What would anyone expect?
But in order to cool off, the fire that was lit by the radical right has to be brought under control, and it's far from there.
The OP didn't ask who started it. He/she asked us to discuss points of commonality.
The OP didn't ask who started it. He/she asked us to discuss points of commonality.
And I addressed that point.
Appears you did, too. But then went onto a critique on my post, so I was compelled to respond.
This situation won't improve until the rabidly angry, fearful and divisive rhetoric stops. One side starts it, the other reacts to it. That cycle will continue to repeat until the instigators calm down, take a deep breath and realize that fellow Americans aren't an enemy to be defeated.
We're not in the same time zone with that conclusion.
Truth is, I don't even know what I classify as to be honest.
I guess I ultimately believe in smaller government is the best because it's too easy for a big government to breed corruption that we won't be able to fight back. I also believe in personal freedoms, and personal responsibility. I also believe in protecting the environment, and it seems to me the biggest threat to the environment is urban sprawl. Can't cry about banning straws to save the ocean, but then turn around and approve of a huge 6500 family home gated community being built right next to the Everglades Restoration National Park.
This entire forum is filled with posts that might start off promising (in a few cases) but rapidly devolve into partisan name-calling. I'm wondering if we can have a thread that spans, I don't know, five pages, where we talk about what we agree on. This is for the rightest fringe of the right wingers, the most leftist lefties and everyone in between.
Can we do it? I suspect that we all have more in common than we think. Ready, set, go!
Pretty obvious.
I'd say most things are in common short of the definition of some....and, of course, of superstition. But when it comes to superstition, it's really a matter of whether it affects me or society.
Anti-vax types are as likely to be left, center or right as anything else.
So, anyway, I'd say most people have most decent things in common. It's only when they label things that the "fun" starts.
I would consider myself a radical leftist, which means I sit right about center in a place like Denmark or Portugal, etc.
And yet most all of my volunteer work has been done with Jesuits and with Christian orgs. In the case of the former, they are probably labeled "left" since Jesuits are anti-war, tolerant, etc.
In the case of the later, there are actually some Christian efforts which are really Christian - Habitat, meals on wheels, etc. - that is, they base on Christian values. But those are UNIVERSAL VALUES.
If we removed all the 65+ population out of the equation, I'd think the country would be a lot more reasonable. Being that age myself it may seem like a strange thing to say - but looking at demos, Fox News and Hate Radio and all that tends to appeal to a MUCH older audience and then that finances it and it spreads to younger folks.
My MIL is 98 and she is starting to decline. In rehab they asked her about the President(s) to test her mind. Out came "Obama wasn't born here" - ONLY because she was 94 when she heard it 24/7/365 on her radio down in Florida. The PT worker nicely corrected her!
However, this shows some of the problem. Allowing all this hate to be spewed to people who can't process it was well (and she is SMART) creates a problem.
Anyway, I think most good things are agreed upon...but some people (many?) have a very short term thinking and aren't into the "think 7 generations ahead" type of planning. In our system that creates a certain selfishness (I don't want to pay taxes. I don't want to pay $5 more for something made with less pollution) that isn't a good thing, IMHO.
The civility issue began with Newt Gingrich and continues to the present with the rhetoric of the hate radio jocks and the current occupant of the oval office.
Yes, there's been some reaction and pushback from the left. What would anyone expect?
But in order to cool off, the fire that was lit by the radical right has to be brought under control, and it's far from there.
Right - the internet also cannot be downplayed as the tool that profiteers and others use to spread...anything.
We were not born with the inherent intelligence to deal with being in contact with everyone else in the world...or to properly sort terrabytes of information. This is all new.
Remember - it wasn't long ago when our parent or grandparents would proclaim "if it wasn't true, they couldn't print it (in the paper)". This was the assumption of many.
This is why my 98 year old MIL, despite not having a racist bone in her body..and despite being a classic Philadelphia Democrat (working person), will go to her grave thinking Obama was born in Kenya.
Lies work. Propaganda works. We need to face up to this. Protection of children AND seniors and even regular folks is part of a civil society.
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