Conservatives and Liberals: What Do We Have in Common? (state, country)

[Beach Sportsfan]

We all want what is best for our families. Good jobs, nice place to live, good food, good health. We all want clean water, air and we all want to be treated fairly and not used or abused.

We have more in common than we think and if we are able to see and interact which others as human beings first we tend to find that.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by Beach Sportsfan

We all want what is best for our families. Good jobs, nice place to live, good food, good health. We all want clean water, air and we all want to be treated fairly and not used or abused.

We have more in common than we think and if we are able to see and interact which others as human beings first we tend to find that.

True. But everyone in the entire world probably wants that. Is that enough to hold a country together?

Of course it's the means to achieving these things that gets in the way plus other things that some people want that others don't want. Many of us want less war, for instance, and less greed.

If only we had leaders who could bring us together.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by SeaMaj7

What we have in common is the Human condition: The battle between heart and mind.

Check out Cygnus X-1 Book II: Hemispheres

Apollo and Dionysus, reason vs. emotion. I have similar thoughts whenever I listen to the song. Would make a pretty interesting movie.

We can walk our road together
If our goals are all the same
We can run alone and free
If we pursue a different aim

Let the truth of Love be lighted
Let the love of truth shine clear
Sensibility
Armed with sense and liberty
With the Heart and Mind united
In a single perfect sphere

2112, the struggle of the individual against a dystopian, collectivist society, perhaps is even more telling.

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I would hope that most of us are not that selfish though. I hope we do care about others. I have no kids but I definitely support paying for schools and other things that benefit kids. I don't know if it's so much about wanting more money as love of country and wanting a decent quality of life. QOL doesn't equal money, it can mean nice parks, lack of violence, trusted leadership, access to decent health care, clean air and water, not so much greed in tearing down natural environments and building gigantic housing tracts all over the place, etc. A peaceful, pleasant, and not so stressful life.

I would argue that humans are more selfish and narrowly self-interested than we generally admit. We "love country" from tribal feeling that validates our own identity. But do we "love country" enough to pay more taxes? Enough to be conscripted into the army, perhaps to die or to be maimed? Enough to take from ourselves and to contribute to some collective prosperity? Some do. Most don't. The very word "collective" is laced with pejorative connotation. It does wonders to stunt and reverse the "love of country".

Many subscribe to the Milton Friedman view, that free public parks are an abomination. In this view, collective goods are automatically suspect. Funds for enabling such goods are deemed to be a form of coercion. This coercion is tolerated as long as the people benefiting from such goods are deemed to be sufficiently similar to ourselves, and thus, sufficiently deserving. Few propositions raise more ire and strife, than the insistence that so-and-so, who doesn't look like us, who doesn't have the same background as us, is deserving of public-goods, funded by our taxes.

My belief is that civic-mindedness is a veneer, or at beast a realization that we who are strong today may become weak tomorrow, and therefore are willing to pay for those who are weak today, with the supposition that later our own turn will come. That's a kind of enlightened selfishness, or maybe a form of investment. We contribute not from selfless regard for our fellow human-beings, but from understanding that our own prosperity in the long-term, is contingent on our munificence in the short-term.

And there's a second cause for generosity: the desire to be well-regarded and respected. Nobody respects the skinflint, the avaricious. Those who consume today's resources with abandon will, perhaps, realize that future generations won't think kindly of them. The desire to conserve is therefore a desire to be well-regarded by posterity, to be remembered fondly, and not scorned as abusers or wasteful fools. But if we could gorge ourselves on any available resources, and yet somehow manage to still be remembered as good and judicious stewards, then gorge we will.

[WiseManOnceSaid]

I think that all humans want to be accepted, want to care for their families, want to procreate, and want to feel apart of something greater.

Some more than others, but I feel we all have the basic needs to be included in a society, to thrive, to learn to love and help others.

[phantompilot]

The answer is nothing. Liberals hate freedom and America.
There is no common ground.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

3. Choosing ideology over objective thinking. Declaring oneself a liberal or a conservative is the equivalent of taking a math test and writing the number 5 in all the blanks. There will be times when you are dead on. There will be times when you will be close to correct. And there will be times when you are disastrously wrong.

I guess this is technically true, but at the same time, its also wrong.

Ideology in many cases can be about how to do something, not just whether you are going to do it or not.

So that analogy doesnt really work unless you are being simplistic for the sake of being so.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by animalcrazy

This is a great thread. So often we lose sight of the fact that we are all more than a vote. We are going to go to a phonograph preview auction with a dear friend. He's a Trump supporter and listens non stop to Rush. We are never Trumpers, yet, we love and respect each other and get along just fine. He won't talk to me about politics. He's very low information and prefers to live in his right wing bubble. That's fine, I respect it. He will always be a treasured friend no matter who he votes for. I have this image of him forever burned in my memory. His wife almost died (the first one died in her 40's) and he was kneeling at her bed praying and crying. It didn't matter who he voted for. I just hugged him. It broke my heart to see him in so much pain. Presidents will come and go, but good friends are forever.

This argument works just fine in a bubble or if your vote either way, doesnt really affect you.

But if you are black and the vote in discussion is civil rights, it makes a big difference.

[NVplumber]

The divisions between left and right here have become so pronounced these days hat even for a more centrist guy like me common ground is getting to be rare. The most radical fringes have really taken over the left and on the right there has been similar response. That said if I'm having a conversation with someone and politics and religion don't get brought up I can find lots of things I might have in common with someone to the left or right of my personal space.


For example, I love animals. Especially horses. It's quite likely even a radical leftist and I might find common ground in that. Our styles of riding might be quite different, we may favor a particular breed over another, how and where we like to ride will vary but horse people are horse people. We all understand what it takes to care for our animals and keep them healthy.


While I favor a cavalry style of tack, McClellan saddle, Leather head stall and an easy on the mouth bit I love my cavalry tack. It's easy on the horse and easy on me. The person who I am talking to may favor English style hunt seat tack or traditional Western and so begins the fun. Asking about their animal, what breed and what is he/she trained for, how do ya like that funky English tack, how's that uncomfortable looking McClellan saddle treat you, on into infinity.


If we were in the saddle a hundred miles from nowhere looking at life from twixt our horses ears to the music of creaking saddle leather and the smell of horse sweat political differences wouldn't matter. If only things could be that way in all cases. Alas somehow politics and such always seems to come up and then the issues start. Nice thing is though is that your horse could care less about such inanities. I guess that's why I prefer the company of animals to most people. They have a way of getting you to look at life more simplistically with an appreciation for the simple pleasures.


Getting that itchy spot you can't reach scratched, a cool drink of water on a hot day, wordless bonding and companionship, a tasty treat after a job well done etc. Yea, the more people I meet the more I appreciate my horse.

[Retroit]

I think we all agree that the national debt will never be paid off and that the United States will one day qualify as a Third World Country.