Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What is happening as we speak is scary enough. What has happened even in the last 30 years is scary also.....I mean, how many Russians (Georgians, Checkens, etc.) has Putin killed or maimed or horribly tortured? In his OWN country.
Not enough of them, lol.
If Georgia did not want what happened, they should have not attacked, pretty simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
It is unimaginable to those of us of Western (Europe and USA/Canada, etc.) upbringing to imagine our own government - in the modern day - bombing our own cities to rubble and grabbing virtually every young man off the street....and then....NO TRACE of them every again.
No, the US and west just goes to other countries and do it.
The US has already established it will invade any US state that decides to break away from the US, the US devastated numerous CSA towns and cities.
Chechnya was granted semi-autonomous status, and you know what they did? They invaded Dagestan. Yea, quite good characters they are, will not even get into the rampant terror activities they do globally, including here in the US.
Imagine the US granting a state semi-autonomous status, then they turn around and invade a neighboring state, and then commit numerous acts of terror; you think the US would just sit by and do nothing?
It gives a small insight into Putins murderous ways. Not only is mass murder and torture OK, but....and this is generally a Western No-No, the bodies are never given back to the families.
This isn't past history. This is now...in the internet age.
Yes, mass murder and torture is ok, just ask the US, they even ran secret torture sites just to get away with it.
At that, the biggest murderers in Chechnya are Chechens themselves. That is why so many flee from there and go to Moscow and other cities in Russia, and also go to some central Asian countries, because despite what you think, a Chechen is treated better by Russians in Moscow, than by Chechens in Chechnya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
When you think of General (hate to call him that) Flynn of the USA sitting at a table with the guy....it makes me sick. When I think of Trump wanting to give him the top 50 million dollar condo in his planned Moscow Tower, it makes me violently ill.
And? The US sits at the table with numerous dictators and rather cruel leaders in the world. You sick over those also?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but was Ukraine not part of the USSR?
You ARE wrong.
Ukraine indeed was part of the USSR.
That's the only reason Ukraine got Crimea - it has been adjoined to Ukraine as a gift to "brotherly people" from Russia, when both were part of the same country.
Belarus? Ukraine? Sort of right on the border of those two....
Chernobyl was certainly a fine example of Russia engineering and design. There is a very good reason Russia airliners don't sell big worldwide. Russians and some of their allies were forced to buy them back when.....which is the only reason they existed.
er
The Chinese will probably help them get it right...and they will only be 20 years behind at that point.
One thing to remember about present day Russia is that they still think Stalin is the greatest person in history.
"A public-opinion poll in Russia has found that 57 percent of respondents view the Soviet dictator Josef Stalin as "a wise leader who led the Soviet Union to might and prosperity."
Now, one might say "If Russia has changed and is now Far Right Wing Authoritarian" (which it is), why would they still think Stalin was the greatest man in their history?
My only answer...and I'm certainly not expert on Russian thought or history, is that Stalin was also a Far Right Wing Authoritarian. That ties into the many who claim - with some accuracy - that Russia was never really communist (except in verbiage and thought).
No doubt that collectivism is what has made mankind successful and is responsible for most advancements. BUT, making that collectivism into a "state religion" or system is where they go wrong. Most people choose to be social beings and to live and work in groups on their own...and they don't need to be treated like machines and told to work for the common good (unless building defenses for their city during an invasion, etc.).
Lol, we know...
"Stalin was also a Far Right Wing Authoritarian."
As much reading as I have done in my life about Stalin, one thing no one has ever described as is "right wing" anything. To even attempt to put Stalin or about anyone outside the US into some little "left" or "right" definitions as it relates to the US is ridiculous. Those terms as you understand them only exist in the US, for the US, and taking some person from say the 1930's and trying to assign such a label you use now, is ridiculous. But you always do this, any and everything you have even the slightest disagreement with, you classify as "right wing". Now the grand Soviet leader is "right wing", which is laughable, considering the entire concept of the USSR if translated to modern terms, is a wholly leftist concept.
Chernobyl by the way, was a Soviet design, not Russian. Did you forget the Soviet Union existed or something?
Pure speculations, that were never proven to be true.
If they were true ( on top of all the losses of the Civil war and WWII,) Russia would have collapsed demographically long time ago.
I think most people would agree he killed millions.
Sadly for Stalin his last purge involved all the Jewish doctors, so when he fell ill, the best doctors weren't avialable.
I say ill, although no one is sure if the equally disgusting Lavrentiy Beria (the Head of the Secret Police) played a role in Stalin's death, as the Russians have a history of using poison against their opponents, something which hasn't changed to this day.
How funny it is to read. Because west media hammered in you head myth about "100 millions of murders".
I said millions, the exact figure is unclear but it runs in to the millions, indeed many academics have estimated tens of millions, the usual figure I see cited is actually 20 milllion.
I can see your reluctance not to speak out, indeed 25% of Russians support Stalin and his purgers and those who have protested have been detained.
I gave you a quote from an official document. And you give me some speculation of journalists. Here please to you scans of official document. Ask someone to get translated to you.
You can quote as many so called documents as you want, the truth is there were numerous purges and a lot that went on in Russia was hidden, just as in Mao's China.
Stalin is forever remembered as an evil leader with lots of blood on his hands, just as Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot are remembered.
In 2003, Fifty years after Stalin's death, one of the first western historians to document the violence perpetrated by the brutal leader describes how his demise saved citizens of the Soviet Union from greater suffering.
OMG,
In this lie is believed only in the West and a handful of marginals in Russia. Most of the Russian population does not consider Stalin as a "bloody tyrant".
No - he was a loevely man, and the Soviet Union under him and Eastern Bloc was a lovely place to live under Uncle Joe's leadership, and they all lived happily ever after.
Collectivism always fails, be it communism, socialism, fascism, or nationalism.
The only reason the U.S.--a hybrid of socialism and fascism--hasn't yet failed is the Federal Reserve printing up trillions of dollars of worthless money to keep the ship from sinking like the Titanic.
$200 trillion in unfunded liabilities are about to finally sink the ship for good, though, especially when the Petrodollar is no longer the reserve currency.
Which has made our country great?
Capitalism or the Petro Dollar?
Would things have turned out differently if the Soviet Union had the petrodollar instead of us?
Ukraine indeed was part of the USSR.
That's the only reason Ukraine got Crimea - it has been adjoined to Ukraine as a gift to "brotherly people" from Russia, when both were part of the same country.
You missed the english in the post regarding this.
When we ask "Was something not part of the USSR?" - in spoken English that means we are making the statement that it WAS and asking for verification, which you provided.
Ukraine was part of the USSR for certain! As to being part of "Russia", this is arguable depending on the particular part of history. As with parts of Poland and the Baltic Republics and Finland, etc. it came and went...or part of it came and went.
"the territory was contested, ruled and divided by a variety of powers, including Lithuania, Poland, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire and Russia. A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but its territory was eventually split between Poland and the Russian Empire"
I think what is relevant to modern discussions of Ukraine are these facts..and/or perceptions..
1. When the USSR Split, the former sat. state were told to "take what freedom they could handle".....in other words, invited to do their own thing.
2. Ukraine, as I remember, agreed to give up their nukes...for the promise they wouldn't be aggressed upon.
3. Eastern Ukraine and Crimea, like many parts of the USSR, were "ethically cleansed" and "real" Russians paid to settle there. That's why it is laughable when currently people say "Oh, but take a vote - those people in Ukraine WANT to be with Russia".
Of course they do. They were settled there to take over!
Still, even with forced settlement and re-settlement:
"The country is home to a multi-ethnic population, 77.8 percent of whom are Ukrainians,"
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
