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Old 05-21-2019, 10:08 AM
 
4,288 posts, read 2,073,015 times
Reputation: 2815

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post

Do you want people to be in offices if we don't know for a 100% fact they have never done anything wrong.

.
Congress would be empty.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:28 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,912 posts, read 10,656,081 times
Reputation: 16446
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
So you want people to disregard the judiciary (unconstitutional) because you think the exercise of Congressional oversight and legislative powers (expressly authorized by the Constitution) is a “coup attempt”? That is some Herculean pretzel logic there.
The Constitution does not give the lower courts power over the President. They are created by Congress and, therefore, cannot supersede presidential authority. Only SCOTUS has the power to resolve this conflict between two coequal branches of government.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:30 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,998,922 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
The Constitution does not give the lower courts power over the President. They are created by Congress and, therefore, cannot supersede presidential authority. Only SCOTUS has the power to resolve this conflict between two coequal branches of government.
That's an interesting interpretation.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,399 posts, read 26,443,071 times
Reputation: 15709
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayAnn246 View Post
It's clearly another attempt by Individual 1 to run his con game. No one with credibility takes him seriously.

We may know more soon because he will continue to lose in court for his stonewalling. Besides the law, here is another reason why:
DONALD TRUMP’S SUBPOENA APPEALS NOW HEAD TO MERRICK GARLAND’S COURT

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-subpo...-court-1431543
Now that’s interesting I assume that Trump will ask him to recuse.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:38 AM
 
Location: FL
20,696 posts, read 12,595,608 times
Reputation: 5452
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
In this decision? No, I don't. Pretty much every legal scholar agreed from the outset that Trump's legal argument lacked merit and that he would ultimately lose, but that his strategy was to try to run out the clock in hopes that the Republicans take back the House before the records were turned over. It shouldn't surprise anyone that summary judgment was granted in favor of the Oversight Committee.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:01 AM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,614,594 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
The Constitution does not give the lower courts power over the President. They are created by Congress and, therefore, cannot supersede presidential authority. Only SCOTUS has the power to resolve this conflict between two coequal branches of government.
Congress isn't compelling the President to do anything with this subpoena. The subpoena was directed at a private company.

Moreover, your premise is fundamentally incorrect. The Constitution vests "all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution" with "the Supreme Court and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish." (U.S. Const. Art. III, Sec. 1 and 2)(emphasis added).
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:04 AM
 
11,403 posts, read 4,114,356 times
Reputation: 7852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
The you-know-what is going to hit the fan. Releasing the documents from Deutsche Bank, where it is alleged that Kushner and Trump engaged in questionable money transfers to and from Russian individuals (laundering?), just might uncover criminal conduct. And we have 5 bank employees who say Kushner, on behalf of Trump, did some very suspicious transactions.


Popcorn time coming up...
Pass that popcorn!

Seriously, though. To hear that somebody with literally a job title of "anti-money laundering specialist" flagged multiple Trump & Kushner accounts for possible money laundering...she filled out the paperwork and recommended the accounts be investigated by the federal gov't offices who prosecute financial crimes...

Only for her superiors to ignore her and then she was fired a few months later.

This is one the Trump supporters can't talk themselves out of, and one that Donald Trump himself is probably terrified of.

Once again, no wonder Trump is doing everything within his presidential powers (literally, everything) to block all the subpoenas and testimonies he can. Because he's neck-deep in illegal activity.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:06 AM
 
13,338 posts, read 21,970,450 times
Reputation: 14262
Quote:
Originally Posted by 205 View Post
I read it loud and clear. The judge dubiously used Nixon and Clinton as precedents and examples justifying his ruling. The problem with those precedents is that there was strong probable cause already established that crimes occurred and in some cases already ongoing criminal investigations and indictments of people involved in the Watergate theft of the DNC with Nixon and Whitewater and other shady deals with Clinton. Those cases didn't start with Congress simply going on a fishing expedition to find a crime, ANY crime to take down those presidents. They started with solid evidence of crimes or at least strong probable cause of specified violations of federal law. Correct me if I'm wrong but no one has been formerly charged or indicted yet in the Trump/Russian money laundering alleged and no specific formal charges for violation of federal tax law have been alleged against Trump in regards to deflating or inflating his assets so how does this judge's ruling justify forcing Trump to release his records when Congress hasn't even outlined what specific violation of the law they're alleging that would justify Trump having to turn over tax or bank records? Is "thinking" or knowing that a crime "must have been committed" by someone because you "think" they likely broke the law at some point but failing to formerly allege that they've violated a specific law enough grounds to force them to turn over all of their tax and bank records?

This judge's ruling sets are a horrific and scary precedent that if a person (whether president or not) is deemed "bad enough" then they can be compelled to turn over ANYTHING no matter how private. If you take away a citizen's right to privacy and literally and continually force them to turn over more and more private information until they can find a crime then we've officially crossed the line from having a constitutionally protected right to due process and privacy (privacy assuming there's no formal charges compelling you to turn over records) to a police state that goes after the political and personal enemies of those in power.

The bottom line is that for this country's entire history the Constitution has afforded the accused the right not only to face their accuser but also protection against unreasonable search or seizure which restricts the government and/or prosecutors or investigators from forcing someone to turn over their private records without proof of probable cause that they may have committed a crime. In other words, we aren't allowed or use to not be allowed to go in search of crimes by forcing someone to release tax and bank records without first formerly alleging a crime and showing proof of probable cause that said private records are needed to corroborate the alleged crime.

We open formal investigations into SPECIFIC alleged crimes AFTER probable cause is established that the crime may have occurred and THEN compel defendants or targets of an investigation with subpoenas to turn over records, NOT BEFORE. Otherwise, it's a fishing expedition into a person in search of a crime. Heaven help us as a country if we ever let that kind of precedent stand.


Look:

(1) There is sworn testimony by Trump's personal lawyer that Trump committed tax and bank fraud by misrepresenting asset values.

(2) There are hard records from Trump's accounting firm that both corroborate these crimes and show that the accounting firm is complicit in them.

Is that not SPECIFIC enough for you?
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:17 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,154 posts, read 13,045,225 times
Reputation: 33191
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayAnn246 View Post
It's clearly another attempt by Individual 1 to run his con game. No one with credibility takes him seriously.

We may know more soon because he will continue to lose in court for his stonewalling. Besides the law, here is another reason why:
DONALD TRUMP’S SUBPOENA APPEALS NOW HEAD TO MERRICK GARLAND’S COURT

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-subpo...-court-1431543
Now there's some poetic justice. I'd give my right arm to know what Obama is thinking.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:39 AM
 
21,427 posts, read 7,515,743 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty View Post
Pass that popcorn!

Seriously, though. To hear that somebody with literally a job title of "anti-money laundering specialist" flagged multiple Trump & Kushner accounts for possible money laundering...she filled out the paperwork and recommended the accounts be investigated by the federal gov't offices who prosecute financial crimes...

Only for her superiors to ignore her and then she was fired a few months later.

This is one the Trump supporters can't talk themselves out of, and one that Donald Trump himself is probably terrified of.

Once again, no wonder Trump is doing everything within his presidential powers (literally, everything) to block all the subpoenas and testimonies he can. Because he's neck-deep in illegal activity.
Exactly.

This is no high minded stand on constitutional grounds. Trump is engaging in these extreme efforts because he knows what is in those records. If he wasn't in up to his neck in corrupt and unethical business practice he would not pick this fight.
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