Sanders: Middle class will pay 10k more in taxes for Medicare 4 All (salaries, legal)

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by TwoByFour

For the middle class it wouldn't make a difference but for high wage earners and low wage earners it will. Somebody making 300k a year will be paying more than the 20k a year for insurance, and someone making 30k a year would pay a lot less. Reason why is that premiums are now a tax and our taxes are progressive with higher paid people paying more. For middle class, you would get paid that money your employer now pays the insurance company, but then you just dish it out as tax payment.

Or the employer simply has to pay a Medicare-for-all payroll tax instead of the insurance premiums they pay now.

In reality, the current health care system is equivalent to taxing people who make millions a year a paltry 1% (the cost of their health care premiums) while the middle class is taxed 20%+ (same dollar amount as the millionaire).

[RowingFiend]

It takes a special kind of stupid to believe the federal government is capable of competently managing everyone's health care. No thanks.

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by Mister 7

https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthca...lass-americans

My jaw literally dropped when I saw that amount. That's almost a thousand dollars a month.

He defends it by saying a family that pays $20,000 a year for health insurance and care would be saving money.

Well I fall into the middle class and my health insurance for my spouse and myself is like $230 a month, for excellent coverage. We spend maybe $2850 a year for total everything, rxs, etc.

So under his plan I would be forced to lose that, and pay nearly quadruple for Government run crap.

My wife and i currently self insure, it is roughly $8k a year. While it sucks to have to pay that, we deal with it. It is going to be a hard sell to charge me another $2k a year , probably more by the time it is all done , for insurance that I know won't be the same level.

And if it is run anything like it is in AU, those that make above a certain salary are encouraged to buy their own insurance, and if they don't they get penalized by more taxes. Right there tells you the system is crap, and won't sustain itself.

[TwoByFour]

Originally Posted by RowingFiend

It takes a special kind of stupid to believe the federal government is capable of competently managing everyone's health care. No thanks.

Feds won't manage your healthcare with M4A any more than Medicare manages mine now. All it does is pay for it. It is up to me to choose doctors, treatments, pharmacies, etc. I just never see a bill. My Medicare payments are set up for autopay. I never have to argue about co-pays or what is covered. It is really easy.

[RowingFiend]

Originally Posted by TwoByFour

Feds won't manage your healthcare with M4A any more than Medicare manages mine now. All it does is pay for it. It is up to me to choose doctors, treatments, pharmacies, etc. I just never see a bill. My Medicare payments are set up for autopay. I never have to argue about co-pays or what is covered. It is really easy.

Yeah, and how many months of solvency does Medicare have remaining? How many billions of dollars of Medicare fraud have happened over the years?

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

What's killing the middle class is the outrageous costs of our for-profit health care system. What you say makes no sense considering that all countries with a thriving middle class have a national health care system. Employers are not paying for your health care. You are. Through lower wages and skyrocketing co-pays and deductibles.

1. you will not see raises


2. the cost of care , not insurance is high


the problem is not the cost of insurance...but the cost of care


number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2.5 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.20,000 per year......assisted living facility 45,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.85,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.96,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....12 million (Annually 11,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 590 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html

will nursing homes be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered''?? or is that nearly trillion dollar bill right back on the peoples back??


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More than 26 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 85 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 26 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $141 billion in 2017


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number of americans with heart disease: 29.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 17 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.9 million)).....900,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 690 billion annually
will cardiac care be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered'' or "sorry you smoke, or eat too much" not covered?? that is the cost of CARE... again has nothing to do with insurance


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number of americans with diabetes below the age of 60: 31 million....total cost 395 billion per year, and rising.....
will the ''government single-payer'' say.... nope, you got diabetes, because you are FAT, sorry not covered??


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Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 37.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----366 billion per year
year
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $444 Billion by 2020 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease



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number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.9 million for a total of 25 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 250 billion. and expected to be 290 billion by 2020


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number of americans with asthma: 27 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 76 billion per yearand increasing


that's over 130 million people with serious health risks..while some may overlap..its still a good one third of the country


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SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR IT...........................
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so what YOU are saying is we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts


when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS


how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machines are made in and imported from Denmark


how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face????? will the government LOWER property taxes for doctors offices.. the property taxes that fund our schools which say they dont have enough money????

think about that one for a second.... let it sink in....


how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????......especially some supplies that aren't even American, because the globalist liberals have outsourced almost all manufacturing!!!


how are you going to control the cost of the people salaries???? these people with a specialty of medicine...... a maximum wage ??? yeah that's a perfect socialist idea a max wage... bet that will fly



how are you, going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers????.....
...are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
yeah that's the idea...'nationalize' every profession connected to medicine, then install a max wage....



how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS????? …. well Shakespeare did say "kill all the lawyers"



how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 510,000 a month...that's over 6 million dollars in electric costs yearly, and in most case to a town government as many utility companies are municipals to the town/city...………..
.........….you are not likely to cut that piece of overhead...………..

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

Thats not how it would work.

An employer pays $20 000 a year in insurance premiums and this is part of the labor costs for the employer, just as wages are. You pay $4000 a year+deductibles and co-pays.

An employer pays $15 000 a year in Medicare-for-all payroll taxes. This is also part of the labor costs for the employer. You pay $3000 a year in Medicare-for-all employee payroll taxes. And no or negligible co-pays and deductibles.

So what's the better deal for you financially? When people mention "skyrocketing taxes" they always include the employer portion of the taxes as something YOU really pay (through lower wages), but always fail to include what the employer pays now in insurance premiums.

with singlepayer or M4A the employer pays NOTHING, its all on you the taxpayer


so are you better off with:
A) you pay 500/month (about 6k out of your check) and your employer pays 1500/ month (75%) (about 24,000 yearly total between the two entities) and you get a good insurance that covers most of your health care needs


or


B) you pay 10k-20k in taxes, you get no raise, and you get medicare with all of its denial of service

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

with singlepayer or M4A the employer pays NOTHING, its all on you the taxpayer

Nope, most of the payroll taxes will be employer based payroll taxes.

To argue that the employer pays almost everything with employer based health insurance and employer pays nothing with employer based payroll taxes is just laughable. Its a cost for the employer either way. If you want to argue that the worker really pays, then that applies in either case, regardless of whether you call it tax or premium.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by BeerGeek40

Only the free market will ever bring down healthcare costs. Let that one sink in. Anything else that is tried may be good for redistributing money, but it won't work at controlling costs.

Exactly. When does the Fed Gov ever reduce the cost of anything it touches?

[TwoByFour]

Originally Posted by RowingFiend

Yeah, and how many months of solvency does Medicare have remaining? How many billions of dollars of Medicare fraud have happened over the years?

Medicare fraud is not within Medicare, it is bad doctors over billing Medicare. That kind of fraud happens with private insurance also you just rarely hear about it because Medicare has public oversight so any fraud is part of the public record, while private insurance fraud may not result in a criminal prosecution of the doctor.

As far as solvency, that has nothing to do with whether M4A is a good or bad idea, it has to do with whether the funding matches the costs. Medical costs have gone up and Medicare premiums are still dirt cheap; I think they should go up.