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Old 08-29-2019, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,758,281 times
Reputation: 20674

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Free market means this.....

Mr. X is 90 years old and can stay alive for 2 more years with $2000 per month spent on expensive drugs.

Mr. X finds alternative medicines for $250 per month that allow him to live for 1 year rather than 2 years.

Mr. X decides on the alternative route.



That's the free market in action and it's the only thing that will bring down costs.
Mr X has that choice today, including not taking any medications and maybe living only months.

Often times, it’s Mr X’s family demanding everything possible be done, regardless of the quality of life or lack thereof.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,294,125 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Only the free market will ever bring down healthcare costs. Let that one sink in. Anything else that is tried may be good for redistributing money, but it won't work at controlling costs.
we've waited an awful long time for the free market to bring down healthcare costs, how much longer do we need to wait for that miracle to happen?
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,492,759 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
we've waited an awful long time for the free market to bring down healthcare costs, how much longer do we need to wait for that miracle to happen?
we don't have freemarket health care
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:19 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,963,795 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
While the terms are often used interchangeably, Universal HC is not National HC

At least 32 countries have Universal HC which means nearly everyone is COVERED by insurance, public or private or a combo.

Most countries with Universal Healthcare do not operate under a National HC model.
Even comparing the "insurance" with other countries is highly misleading. The "universal health care" proposal offered by Biden and others would still leave huge numbers of people uninsured and underinsured. That just doesnt happen in other developed countries as the countries with an "insurance model" have extremely tight regulations of insurance companies and health care providers. No candidate is proposing anything like that in America.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,758,281 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The latter won't shift until every wage earner pays federal income and payroll taxes. Currently, only 55% of all income earners pay any federal income tax whatsoever, and 27% of all income earners have a zero sum or negative cumulative federal income and payroll tax rate due to refundable tax credits.

For example, European countries have a 20%-25% VAT that EVERYONE pays. Do that here in the US, make sure EVERYONE pays, and support for increase for universal healthcare.
Congress had the opportunity in 2018 to reshape the tax code. They could have gone flat tax based on any gross income and called it a day. How elegant and simple.

Instead, Congress chose to retain a progressive tax system and tossed in doubling the Child Tax Credit bone. The latter likely increases the number of people who don’t pay any Federal Taxes, over time.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:23 PM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,505,945 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Why speculate those enrolled in traditional Medicare would be expected to pay into a Medicare for All scheme?

Why assume Congress will go along with a Medicare for All scheme, no matter who is elected?
Well, that's what I've asked on this thread: would seniors be exempt? Has Sanders specified? Nobody can answer, and I can't find the answer in my research. I figure Sanders hasn't thought it through to that extent (or he has and realizes that if he exempts seniors, the cost per taxpayer goes even higher; and if he includes seniors, they will vote against him).

And if Congress won't go along with the scheme, why are these candidates even talking about it? Just because it's the "progressive" thing to do? Come to think about it, they're not going to go along with reparations, or free college, or wiping out loan debt, either. Are these just bribes that sound good, will fool the gullible into voting for them, and then...."oh, well....Congress wouldn't let me do it, I tried."
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:26 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,963,795 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Congress had the opportunity in 2018 to reshape the tax code. They could have gone flat tax based on any gross income and called it a day. How elegant and simple.

Instead, Congress chose to retain a progressive tax system and tossed in doubling the Child Tax Credit bone. The latter likely increases the number of people who don’t pay any Federal Taxes, over time.
We pay more in taxes for health care (Medicaid, Medicare, VA, insurance for public employees) than most other developed countries pay for their tax funded universal health care. On top of the taxes, we also have huge private outlays. Thats how inefficient and corrupt our system is.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,294,125 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
we don't have freemarket health care
We allegedly did before the ACA, at least that's what opponents to the ACA claim. However if you are talking about a 'free market' where there is no medicare, or medicaid you can forget it. We will never see that because as mean as we can be at times we would never cut off all funding for healthcare for those who can't afford it, or for those who have paid into medicare for decades.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:33 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
We pay more in taxes for health care (Medicaid, Medicare, VA, insurance for public employees) than most other developed countries pay for their tax funded universal health care. On top of the taxes, we also have huge private outlays. Thats how inefficient and corrupt our system is.
Again, look at the profit hogs. Neither insurance companies nor hospitals nor pharmaceutical companies made the top 15 most profitable list, only OFFICES of dentists, physicians, and other health practitioners did. Perhaps that's where cost-cutting efforts need to focus.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/feki.../#3d5725ff7a39
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,758,281 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
Yeah, my jaw dropped when I heard her say that. Jeezuz these pinheads running things are a joke. Could you imagine private businesses being ran and doing things like the way the government does???

I have a co-worker that loves and wants the government to control and run everything. In the next breath he complains about how bad the DMV is. I'm like you can't have it both ways dude.

You mean like Trump being all over the board in terms of what it will cost to build, maintain and eventually replace The Wall?

You mean like Trumpcare 1 and 2?

You mean like the Skinny Repeal of the ACA that McCain shot down because no one knew what was in the legislation?

Do you think Most Congress Critters read the legislation put before them ? They rely on their aids, lobbyists, handlers and party.
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