Sanders: Middle class will pay 10k more in taxes for Medicare 4 All (companies, cost)

[floridarebel]

Honestly I'd rather have healthcare just come out of my taxes and not have to pay deductibles or co payments etc.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

No MD is forced to accept a Medicare reimbursement. While most do, most limit the number of Medicare patients. Depending on geography, it can be very challenging to find a medical practice accepting new patients, unless the patient is willing to buy into a concierge program, with annual fees typically in the $1000-5000 range.

As you know, Medicare does not cover everything. For this reason, many have supplemental plans or opt into Advantage Plans with narrow networks.

Correct, and Medicare doesn't cover the concierge (membership) fee. That's OOP.

[whogo]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

More reasons docs will not be in favor. Not only should patients have choices in their HC, so should docs have choices in patients and plans to accept.

Agree

What I would not mind seeing is COBRA being subsidized or paid completely for those collecting unemployment. Most Americans are pretty happy with their health insurance. That is what liberals don’t understand.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

1. you will not see raises


2. the cost of care , not insurance is high


the problem is not the cost of insurance...but the cost of care


number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2.5 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.20,000 per year......assisted living facility 45,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.85,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.96,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....12 million (Annually 11,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 590 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html

will nursing homes be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered''?? or is that nearly trillion dollar bill right back on the peoples back??


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More than 26 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 85 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 26 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $141 billion in 2017


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number of americans with heart disease: 29.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 17 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.9 million)).....900,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 690 billion annually
will cardiac care be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered'' or "sorry you smoke, or eat too much" not covered?? that is the cost of CARE... again has nothing to do with insurance


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number of americans with diabetes below the age of 60: 31 million....total cost 395 billion per year, and rising.....
will the ''government single-payer'' say.... nope, you got diabetes, because you are FAT, sorry not covered??


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Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 37.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----366 billion per year
year
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $444 Billion by 2020 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease



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number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.9 million for a total of 25 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 250 billion. and expected to be 290 billion by 2020


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number of americans with asthma: 27 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 76 billion per yearand increasing


that's over 130 million people with serious health risks..while some may overlap..its still a good one third of the country


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SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR IT...........................
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so what YOU are saying is we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts


when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS


how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machines are made in and imported from Denmark


how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face????? will the government LOWER property taxes for doctors offices.. the property taxes that fund our schools which say they dont have enough money????

think about that one for a second.... let it sink in....


how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????......especially some supplies that aren't even American, because the globalist liberals have outsourced almost all manufacturing!!!


how are you going to control the cost of the people salaries???? these people with a specialty of medicine...... a maximum wage ??? yeah that's a perfect socialist idea a max wage... bet that will fly



how are you, going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers????.....
...are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
yeah that's the idea...'nationalize' every profession connected to medicine, then install a max wage....



how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS????? …. well Shakespeare did say "kill all the lawyers"



how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 510,000 a month...that's over 6 million dollars in electric costs yearly, and in most case to a town government as many utility companies are municipals to the town/city...………..
.........….you are not likely to cut that piece of overhead...………..

And these costs persist no matter who/ what is the primary payer, Medicare, private insurance or self pay, out of pocket.

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

Curious.By self insure, do you mean you pay out of pocket for healthcare or do you mean you have an Individual, non subsidized plan?

I guess , what is the difference ?
We pay out of pocket. We had to shop around for a company , which ended up being Blue Cross.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

And these costs persist no matter who/ what is the primary payer, Medicare, private insurance or self pay, out of pocket.

correct...these costs do exist...and a M4A or singlepayer will not reduce these costs 1 penny...yet plenty of people continue to spin how singlepayer will reduce costs...it wont

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by hawaiiancoconut

The left won’t admit what an utter failure Obama’s signature healthcare policy was. And they want to mimic another government run healthcare. Washington can’t even balance the budget, what makes them think they can afford healthcare to the world.

A balanced budget would be the last thing our federal gov't or people would want when it comes to HC. The future HC of our people will not happen without more future money.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by Sharpydove

Agree, and Ii also think we will have a shortage of doctors. My cousin is a Director of Admissions in charge of recruitment for a major university. She has told me that a concern already being expressed by future med students is the Medicare For All scenario. The students are concerned going in to this field maybe not be lucrative or frankly, worth all the invested work and years.

Laying the groundwork and infrastructure for future HC is key. If we don't invest in the necessary future HC related resources, including docs and other HC providers and facilities, the system will automatically ration due to lack of access.

[Feltdesigner]

Originally Posted by floridarebel

Honestly I'd rather have healthcare just come out of my taxes and not have to pay deductibles or co payments etc.

Stands in this line

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

That will be much harder for companies when workers no longer are chained to the employer for health care. M4A boosts workers' power. If the employer currently pays $10 000 in insurance premiums and they instead have to pay $10 000 in M4A payroll taxes, you cant argue that workers will lose $10 000. If the M4A employer payroll tax is lower, its also likely that the employee portion would be lower than what the employee pays now in premiums, co-pays and deductibles. The evidence is overwhelming that a national health care system is good for ordinary people. Thats why every developed country has it.

I like the idea of funding it with corporate M4A payroll taxes so long as it is costed to the company not the individual, else many companies will just deduct it from employee's gross, effectively shifting cost of insurance premiums onto employee and pointing the blame at the big bad gubmint.


What about contractors, sole proprietors, and unemployed? One might say the taxes they would owe simply replace the insurance premiums but the reality is many didn't pay the premiums.


We'll need to look for every possible loophole or endrun around the rules to game the system, because companies certainly will.