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Old 08-29-2019, 12:34 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Well, that's what I've asked on this thread: would seniors be exempt? Has Sanders specified? Nobody can answer, and I can't find the answer in my research. I figure Sanders hasn't thought it through to that extent (or he has and realizes that if he exempts seniors, the cost per taxpayer goes even higher; and if he includes seniors, they will vote against him).

And if Congress won't go along with the scheme, why are these candidates even talking about it? Just because it's the "progressive" thing to do? Come to think about it, they're not going to go along with reparations, or free college, or wiping out loan debt, either. Are these just bribes that sound good, will fool the gullible into voting for them, and then...."oh, well....Congress wouldn't let me do it, I tried."
Yes, seniors are exempt.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,492,759 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Labor shortages following WW2 compelled many employers to offer a hospitalization benefit.

I hear you about the hospital vs poly clinic thing. Makes no sense most births occur in hospitals that tend to be prepared for any trauma or infectious disease.

Having said this, rural healthcare is a global challenge, regardless of public or private insurance.
not exactly... but close


In 1926, you had Free Market healthcare.

Any person --- employed or not --- could go to any hospital and obtain a healthcare plan specifically tailored to the needs of their family and their budget.

That ended in 1933.

The hospitals of the American Hospital Association --- not insurance companies --- dictate to you what your needs will be and how much you will pay.

In 1939 the American Hospital Association now groups hospitals into monopolistic cartels, and institutes the "Out-of-Network" Clause.....proof no Free Market exists.

By 1942, things were getting difficult. FDR's Wage & Price Freeze was having a negative effect. Employers told government to get bent and went behind the backs of government to give employees "pay raises" anyway in spite of FDR's freeze on pay raises.

Employers did that by offering to pay for the health plans issued by the monopolistic hospital cartels.

The FDR Administration and the IRS challenge employers, but the National War Labor Board issues this fateful ruling...

"Amounts paid by an employer on account of premiums on insurance on the life of the employee...may not exceed five per cent of the employee’s annual salary or wages determined without the inclusion of insurance and pension benefits."

Source: War Labor Reports, Reports and Decisions of the National War Labor Board (Washington, D.C.: The Bureau of National Affairs, 4, 1943) LXIV.

Source
: Office of Economic Stabilization, Regulations of the Part 4001 Relating to Wages and Salaries, Issued October 27, 1942; amended November 5 and November 30, 1942, Section 4001.1 (h) (2), War Labor Reports 4, XII.

Source: War Labor Reports, Reports and Decisions of the National War Labor Board, Section 1002.8, LXVIII.


With the stroke of pen, the federal government has now set America on a path to disenfranchise Millions of Americans by denying them access to health plan coverage.

In 1946 the American Hospital Association incorporates the Blue Cross Health Insurance Company -- the first in America. It has monopoly control with a Market Share of >82%. The cornerstone of Blue Cross is the "Out-of-Network" Clause that financially penalizes people for using hospital that are not members of the American Hospital Association...more proof of Command Market.

The federal government errs again with the pivotal 1949 In Re: Inland Steel decision by the Supreme Court.

Unions have the right negotiate fringe benefits on behalf of employees

Source: Inland Steel Co. v. National Labor Relations Board. United Steel Workers Of America, C.I.O., et al. v. National Labor Relations Board; United States Court of Appeals Seventh Circuit.

"...pension and retirement plans constitute part of the subject matter of compulsory collective bargaining under the Act."

September 23, 1948. Writ of Certiorari Granted January 17, 1949. 170 F.2d 247 (1948)

"Following the 1949 Inland Steel decision by the Supreme Court, pensions became a mandatory bargaining topic and the subject of nearly all collective negotiations."

Source: www.nber.org/chapters/c7131.pdf


That decision moves to further disenfranchise Millions more Americans and deny them access to health plan coverage.

There was one positive thing. The decision signaled that employer based or sponsored health plan coverage was here to stay, and not some passing fad or fancy.

Insurance companies now get into the act, and with a few years, have nearly destroyed all of the Blue Cross' Market Share.

The insurance cost less, provided greater benefits, offered more choices and freedom of choices, including more control over personal health matter and the greatest benefit of all...

...people could profit off of their own health plan coverage.

It allowed lower income Americans to create generational wealth and pass that wealth on, lifting minorities out of the gutter.


The ruling did one more thing....it helped Organized Crime launder money.

Organized Crime controlled the unions, and used the union pension plans to launder money. $Billions and $Billions of tax revenues were lost because of the stupidity of your own government.

One more thing.....the American Hospital Association lobbied all of the State governments for "enabling laws" that allowed the AHA to offer insurance, without being scrutinized and regulated by State insurance commissions or regulators.

That, was even more attractive to Organized Crime.....laundering money through the American Hospital Association and Blue Cross which were exempted by law from any financial scrutiny.

The positive aspects ended in 1954 with this gem from you government....

"Premiums paid by an employer on policies of group life insurance without cash surrender value covering the lives of his employees, or on policies of group health or accident insurance...do not constitute salary if such premiums are deductible by the employer under Section 23(a) of the IRS Code."

Source: Public Law 83-591, August 16, 1954; Internal Revenue Code of 1954, Section 106. For more information see the 1986 IRS Tax Code.

So.....who can get a $1.5 Million catastrophic/life insurance police and leave $1.15 Million to their family with ZERO medical debt?

No one.....that is no longer an option thanks to the American Hospital Association and your government.


Then the American Hospital Association and your government dreamed up this....

"Introduced by various House and Senate sponsors and subject to extensive hearings, the basic framework of part A began to reflect accommodations between the sponsors, the Administration and the American Hospital Association (AHA).

It ranged all the way from principles of institutional reimbursement, which has been pretty thoroughly already worked out in a general way for their own purposes between Blue Cross and the Hospital Association over a period of several years

The American Hospital Association has already nominated the Blue Cross organization for its membership, although some member hospitals will undoubtedly elect out of this arrangement. We have proceeded very far in the development of working arrangements with Blue Cross, although no formal approval as a fiscal intermediary has yet been given them."

Source: Report to Social Security Administration Staff on the Implementation of the Social Security Amendments of 1965, Robert M. Ball Commissioner, November 15, 1965


The US government and the American Hospital Association collude to disenfranchise Millions of Americans and then try to "fix it" with Medicare.

How heroic that the AHA offers up the Blue Cross to help out the very problem it created.

And then when this botched-abortion gets gangrene, the American Hospital Association pays Obama $779 Million for the ACA which increases the cost of medical care, instead of making it affordable.






see the problem IS the government
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:40 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Again, look at the profit hogs. Neither insurance companies nor hospitals nor pharmaceutical companies made the top 15 most profitable list, only OFFICES of dentists, physicians, and other health practitioners did. Perhaps that's where cost-cutting efforts need to focus.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/feki.../#3d5725ff7a39
Its not only profits. Its administrative costs, corruption and price gouging on an epic scale. Besides, your list excludes publicly traded companies and focus on small unlisted companies.

Everyone knows it. The problem is the corrupt puppets people vote for again and again. And that wont change unless we get big money out of politics and strengthen labor unions.

There is zero chance of Medicare-for-all so people who get riled up about about it can calm down. The corruption is far too entrenched for a M4A legislation to pass. At best, even with huge democratic majorities in Congress (which is unlikely), a half-baked public option which would still cause huge numbers of people to die if they cant afford medicine/treatment is the best ordinary people can hope for.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:43 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,030 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Its not only profits. Its administrative costs, corruption and price gouging on an epic scale.
There is no price gouging where excessive profits don't exist. Again, look to the profit hogs to reduce costs: the OFFICES of dentists, physicians, and other health practitioners. They are reaping HUGE profits while also having their own administrative costs.

Quote:
There is zero chance of Medicare-for-all so people who get riled up about about it can calm down. The corruption is far too entrenched for a M4A legislation to pass. At best, even with huge democratic majorities in Congress (which is unlikely), a half-baked public option which would still cause huge numbers of people to die if they cant afford medicine/treatment is the best ordinary people can hope for.
I agree.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:49 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
There is no price gouging where excessive profits don't exist. Again, look to the profit hogs to reduce costs: the OFFICES of dentists, physicians, and other health practitioners. They are reaping HUGE profits while also having their own administrative costs.

I agree.
Of course there is. You just listed small privately held companies and then conclude that we should attack the offices of dentists and physicians only. Thats silly.

But the corruption is far too entrenched for anyone to be worried about health care costs coming down through a national health care system. Ordinary working stiffs even embrace this corruption which severely hurts them. Thats the power of propaganda.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:50 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,477,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
you are correct that health care, especially in specialties such as dental, vet, and cosmetic are expensive


and M4A will not cover those...not ever....medicare doesn't even cover nursing homes for the elderly


medicare has many denials of service...as will M4A.... to include..."sorry we wont cover the better medicine of Nexium, but we will cover the more basic Prilosec for your severe heartburn/acid reflux"..."we don't care that you have Barrett's esophagus (severe burning and scaring of the esophagas)".....Tri-care just recently did that,,,and Tri-care is government care
M4A may cover dental.

Medicare Part D is a whole different animal with too many sub-animals. Generally with proper documentation different proton pump inhibitors can be covered when medically necessary.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,758,281 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Yes, but under Medicare for All it would be economically difficult to not accept Medicare.
Trump campaigned on the promise of repealing and REPLACING Obamacare with something that would take care of everybody and the government (you) was going to pay for it. There Was no plan so impossible to get into the weeds. I have no recollection of anyone, let alone his base, screeching SOCIALISM.

In contrast, Bernie is obviously passionate about M4A as a strategy to achieve Universal Healthcare Coverage for all. He has plans. As such, it’s fodder.

Regardless of who wins 2020, proposed legislation to achieve M4A or Trump’s pie in the sky, is DOA in Congress.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:54 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,030 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Of course there is. You just listed small privately held companies and then conclude that we should attack the offices of dentists and physicians only. Thats silly.
I merely listed the ten most profitable industries, by sector. The OFFICES of dentists, physicians, and other health practitioners are 3 out of the top 10, in that order. Neither insurance companies, hospitals, nor pharmaceutical companies even made the top 15 list.

Here's the list: https://www.forbes.com/pictures/feki.../#3d5725ff7a39
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:56 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I merely listed the ten most profitable industries, by sector.
Your list specifically says that it only covers privately held companies, so publicly traded companies are excluded.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:59 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,030 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Your list specifically says that it only covers privately held companies, so publicly traded companies are excluded.
Feel free to list the net profit margins of publicly traded insurance companies, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies, and we'll compare.
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