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At the risk of getting involved (oh boy) I have to say that the notion of us poor urban darkies (you can take the kid out of the ghetto but can't take the ghetto out of the kid) not being upset the stores are run this way because of the savagery is absurd...which was proposed up thread. I mean, unless you too are one of the savages and not just there to buy toothpaste like I was.
I never walked around my local store (which resembled the DMZ on the Korean peninsula) and thought to myself
"Damn, they're treating us like criminals for no reason!"
No, I knew damn well why the place was structured as such long before my 25 years in loss prevention/private security and later owner of a consulting firm.
^ Like how I stuck that in there?
I didn't want to shop like that but knew it had to be done when you're walking through the aisles observing the bad behavior firsthand.
And it's complex, we're all adults. We know this.
Insurance costs, altering business models, tax breaks, etc are all factored in when a grocer decides to stay in the hood because on the other hand that location has to show a profit worthy of continued commitment to the area. I saw this firsthand when I got older and in the loss prevention business.
The grocers aren't saints in the fact that they are money makers first and foremost. That's what they do. They aren't put on this earth to be benevolent ghetto-savers. They aren't holding KKK meetings in produce after the store closes though either.
I mean, damn. Let's not go overboard.
Based on my experience (being the ghetto kid not the experience of later owning my consulting firm) I give credit overall to the grocers. Eventually my hood turned into a food desert but it took a lot to get chased out of there. A few held out to outright shots fired in the store to actual homicides. Ain't that good enough?
This is the stance of someone who is logical and has a keen knowledge of business. I don't care how many jobs some people pretend that they've had (every job ever mentioned on c-d....which means someone was changing jobs every 3 months and therefore, cannot keep a job), some posters have zero knowledge of how businesses are run, yet they post as authority figures.
It's not rocket science, as you point out. Security measures are put in place for a reason and in certain neighborhoods, whether it's a black urban hood or a meth-riddled town with trailer parks, it shouldn't come as a surprise. Poor people and drug addicts steal. Shocking, I know!
The first time they put razor blades in a locked case I thought, 'Wow - people must be stealing these things.' A common sense reaction that isn't based on emotion or the need to find something to be offended by.
If Kroger decides to close that store - they'll also cite racism for that decision. Ya can't win in the game of 'you're a racist! you're a racist!'
Nice segue into that plug, by the way, you marketing maven, you.
That's not how it works. The Manager also wasn't the final decision maker in sinking money into that store to protect their goods. Corporations have departments to analyze what the best solution is when there are problems in a store. The Manager may have had input, but it's only his store to run, he doesn't have a budget that would allow him to make a capital expenditure like this. He has to take the suggestion of those who know more than he does.
And by the way, it's NOT racist. If theft is a problem and that's the solution - that's too damn bad. Nobody is upset and whining that electric toothbrushes and razor blades are in locked cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1
And by the way, stop misusing the word "prison". They're not being forced to shop in a prison.
Good Lord.
We can have different views and opinions and not agree on the issue. I don't have a problem with us having a difference of opinion. I specifically mentioned that the manager probably didn't want it but it is a racist decision and management is racist by default.
You can disagree and that is your prerogative, but I know what racism is and I'm pretty sure I've experienced it and witnessed it more than you so am better able to know what I'm talking about as a result. Believing that a poor black neighborhood deserves to have a glass cage in their grocery story, is seeing a population as innately inferior to other populations based on ethnicity and income class.
IMO it would be better to close the store than treat people like animals but that is my opinion. Many black people in Atlanta have no problem being treated in an inferior manner. I don't because I have some self respect and I bet you do too and if someone chose to have a glass cage (i.e. prison) in your neighborhood grocery store and assume you are going to steal when you are trying to spend your hard earned money, I doubt you'd in-dignify yourself either and shop at that store if you have any sense about your own dignity.
I am not "misusing" the word prison either. Quit getting sensitive about other people's opinions. I don't have to agree with you nor anyone else in the thread on the issue and I have a much better basis for my view due to me shopping at that store, knowing about the neighborhood, and also knowing that if the manager wasn't okay with racist decisions in their store, they should have called the media themselves about the plan. I would have notified the media about the plan before it went into effect because I'm not one to let customers be treated in an inferior manner to other customers.
You and others may be okay with that, but I'm not and no matter your POV I won't change my opinion on the subject and I honestly don't think or care if you do either.
The act of shoplifting occurs for a variety of reasons including perceived necessity, peer pressure, thrill, impulse, opportunity, entitlement, drugs and more.
Where it occurs and what is being lifted matters.
Under the TMI banner:
My father ( KKK member ) was a habitual shoplifter, scammer and con man. He was the guy with the coat with special inside deep pockets who always wore a hat. A trip to the grocery store usually resulted in Oreos, a bag of candy and meat stashed somewhere on his person. We hit Walgreens for OTC medications.
He would take my sister and I out to eat with some frequency and rarely did he pay for the meal. He did however always leave a big tip. Our summers were full of road trips, usually hitting race tracks and lakes. We stayed at road side motels with swimming pools. Our normal was to depart before sunrise and the bill. Obviously this was before the credit card became common currency.
Remember trips to a distant KMARTs, where he wheeled a cart full of crap right out the door without paying.
He always had some fool woman on the side who he conned until he moved onto his next victim. Don’t get me started on the slip/ fall personal injury claims.
Why did he do what he did? He was what we now call a gambling addict. Stealing, scamming, conning was all about opportunity and the thrill of getting away with it. He was never caught in the act. My sister and I would obsess over the “ what if’s†and as we got older we chose to no longer accompany him, anywhere.
The man was a Racist with a capital “R†who hated nearly everyone, who was different. There were all sorts of food products we were not allowed to eat because well, you know who made the product.
Anyway, shoplifting is an equal opportunity thing. The person walking out the door with a $500 purse at Nordstrom’s looks and behaves like she belongs in the store.
ITA with the bold. Shoplifting is not based on race or class. Most people I know who have been serial shoplifters like you describe your dad have some mental health or drug problems or are just kleptos.
We can have different views and opinions and not agree on the issue. I don't have a problem with us having a difference of opinion. I specifically mentioned that the manager probably didn't want it but it is a racist decision and management is racist by default.
You can disagree and that is your prerogative, but I know what racism is and I'm pretty sure I've experienced it and witnessed it more than you so am better able to know what I'm talking about as a result. Believing that a poor black neighborhood deserves to have a glass cage in their grocery story, is seeing a population as innately inferior to other populations based on ethnicity and income class.
IMO it would be better to close the store than treat people like animals but that is my opinion. Many black people in Atlanta have no problem being treated in an inferior manner. I don't because I have some self respect and I bet you do too and if someone chose to have a glass cage (i.e. prison) in your neighborhood grocery store and assume you are going to steal when you are trying to spend your hard earned money, I doubt you'd in-dignify yourself either and shop at that store if you have any sense about your own dignity.
I am not "misusing" the word prison either. Quit getting sensitive about other people's opinions. I don't have to agree with you nor anyone else in the thread on the issue and I have a much better basis for my view due to me shopping at that store, knowing about the neighborhood, and also knowing that if the manager wasn't okay with racist decisions in their store, they should have called the media themselves about the plan. I would have notified the media about the plan before it went into effect because I'm not one to let customers be treated in an inferior manner to other customers.
You and others may be okay with that, but I'm not and no matter your POV I won't change my opinion on the subject and I honestly don't think or care if you do either.
Well then those same people shouldn't put bars on their windows at home or in stores, nor should their stores have doorbells instead of an open door all day. They're obviously treating people like animals.
We can have different views and opinions and not agree on the issue. I don't have a problem with us having a difference of opinion. I specifically mentioned that the manager probably didn't want it but it is a racist decision and management is racist by default.
You can disagree and that is your prerogative, but I know what racism is and I'm pretty sure I've experienced it and witnessed it more than you so am better able to know what I'm talking about as a result. Believing that a poor black neighborhood deserves to have a glass cage in their grocery story, is seeing a population as innately inferior to other populations based on ethnicity and income class.
IMO it would be better to close the store than treat people like animals but that is my opinion. Many black people in Atlanta have no problem being treated in an inferior manner. I don't because I have some self respect and I bet you do too and if someone chose to have a glass cage (i.e. prison) in your neighborhood grocery store and assume you are going to steal when you are trying to spend your hard earned money, I doubt you'd in-dignify yourself either and shop at that store if you have any sense about your own dignity.
I am not "misusing" the word prison either. Quit getting sensitive about other people's opinions. I don't have to agree with you nor anyone else in the thread on the issue and I have a much better basis for my view due to me shopping at that store, knowing about the neighborhood, and also knowing that if the manager wasn't okay with racist decisions in their store, they should have called the media themselves about the plan. I would have notified the media about the plan before it went into effect because I'm not one to let customers be treated in an inferior manner to other customers.
You and others may be okay with that, but I'm not and no matter your POV I won't change my opinion on the subject and I honestly don't think or care if you do either.
And again, folks, this attitude is why nothing improves in neighborhoods like the one we're discussing.
They'll remain dumps. And no, I don't care. I pay premium dollars to live in a wonderful community.
I just don't want to hear it when people complain about the conditions in which they live when they're the biggest part of the problem.
This is the stance of someone who is logical and has a keen knowledge of business. I don't care how many jobs some people pretend that they've had (every job ever mentioned on c-d....which means someone was changing jobs every 3 months and therefore, cannot keep a job), some posters have zero knowledge of how businesses are run, yet they post as authority figures.
It's not rocket science, as you point out. Security measures are put in place for a reason and in certain neighborhoods, whether it's a black urban hood or a meth-riddled town with trailer parks, it shouldn't come as a surprise. Poor people and drug addicts steal. Shocking, I know!
The first time they put razor blades in a locked case I thought, 'Wow - people must be stealing these things.' A common sense reaction that isn't based on emotion or the need to find something to be offended by.
If Kroger decides to close that store - they'll also cite racism for that decision. Ya can't win in the game of 'you're a racist! you're a racist!'
Nice segue into that plug, by the way, you marketing maven, you.
I'm trying to control an all-out frenzy but appreciate the words.
I don't know about a keen knowledge or sense of business. It's a craft and not a very dynamic or complex one at that. You're basically following academic precedent with a mixture of experience/keeping up with industry standards. Even before I was consulting I had no skin in the game of the clients/businesses aside from my commitment to my work/reputation which is all I've ever needed. It's your money...I get paid whether you read the report and implement or not. I've said this numerous times on the board: the only incentive I have to see you stay afloat is that I can keep collecting money from you.
I'm such a charmer. What a way with words.
I'm a step up from Pavlov's dog though. Take this from middle-aged mom up thread:
Quote:
In absence of one on one surveillance, it’s challenging to catch a professional shoplifter in the act.
There’s a Sam’s Club in an upscale area about 20 minutes from me. They employ people to eyeball an item count and compare it to the receipt, after checking out, before leaving the store. No big deal. That was not enough. Now they audit the contents of the cart to the receipt which takes forever. That was not enough. Now they contract out shoplifters- people who have stuff in carts that do not show on receipts to detect which cashiers and door checkers are allowing inventory to walk out the door.
I was reading along nodding. I know this playbook. Hell, I've co-authored various incarnations of it. I know exactly what happens after X, Y, and Z if the bleeding isn't found and stopped.
A happens, B is implemented. C happens, D is implemented.
You ring the bell, the doggie comes out for food. I'm writing reports and auditing procedures that most folks with a modicum amount of common sense and business acumen can do on their own...at much lesser pay.
But yeah, you need a third party. You need a watchdog. That's what makes a good consultant worth it.
My point in the rambling is that at no time in this endeavor does race, hurt feelings, sky color, whatever get thrown in the mix. Both myself and the business couldn't survive if that was the case because it has nothing to do with anything! Again, there are no KKK meetings in produce after hours (though I suppose I can't be for sure because I wouldn't be invited ). I have the numbers. I put them in an attractive folder (if they want a physical copy ) and hand them over. Read, implement, or wipe your rear with them. I don't care. Just make sure my check is in the mail.
Racism, racism, racism!
I blame the folks who complained and the media, of course, for exacerbating the issue which has nothing to do with race. I'm just speaking from both experiences: growing up ghetto and then doing loss prevention. At no point, and I just know this from working with these folks and how a business tries to stay afloat, do the overwhelming majority to close to all folks have time nor care about this racial nonsense.
You want to hear someone really go off on the challenges of loss prevention? Go into the ghetto, find yourself a black store owner of a mom & pop, and get his opinion on it. He'll be knee-deep in one "racist" soliloquy before you realize that he's just trying to make a living and maybe even have a purpose in his work.
Is that too much to ask for, damn it?
With the SJWs it is though. Just like you said: racist if you do, racist if you don't.
Ya know what, then? Just shut all of them down. Because if the big box white devils are racist so is the black owner of the mom & pop who has to follow the "racist" playbook too.
I for one was happy to have a store to go to even if it was run like Gitmo.
One last thing, and let's hope this doesn't seem like a thrown bone to any of the resident "everything is racist" crowd members in here, that I would like to mention is how it can be challenging to go to other stores when yours closes.
The distance is one factor especially when the burbs aren't keen on public transportation going through their areas. Personal vehicle ownership is a bit lower in the hood. Pricing goes up. The white man does generally have a little more bread in his pocket. And if in personal vehicle depending on local policy the fuzz sometimes isn't very welcoming to the new caravans of urban dwellers making their way out for a dozen eggs. Full stops becoming rolling stops, mufflers a bit louder than statute do suddenly become more commonplace and require a pullover. Again, let's not go overboard on it though.
All the more reason not to b-itch and moan about benign security measures at your local establishment if you ask me. At the very least the next rung of areas around the hood will get used to urban shoppers coming and going and provided that you don't go on a savage-spree when you're out and about in the new area you can at least feel good about your chances. It's a legit reason to be there. There are a few comedians that have bits, I think Bill Burr is one, who talk about how scary it is to see a white person in the ghetto. Especially one that is Bill Burr white. We know you have no legit reason to be here because your burb is fully stocked so you must be up to something so heinous we don't even want to know. Everyone runs in the opposite direction! Now that white man really is the devil.
This is the stance of someone who is logical and has a keen knowledge of business. I don't care how many jobs some people pretend that they've had (every job ever mentioned on c-d....which means someone was changing jobs every 3 months and therefore, cannot keep a job), some posters have zero knowledge of how businesses are run, yet they post as authority figures.
It's not rocket science, as you point out. Security measures are put in place for a reason and in certain neighborhoods, whether it's a black urban hood or a meth-riddled town with trailer parks, it shouldn't come as a surprise. Poor people and drug addicts steal. Shocking, I know!
The first time they put razor blades in a locked case I thought, 'Wow - people must be stealing these things.' A common sense reaction that isn't based on emotion or the need to find something to be offended by.
If Kroger decides to close that store - they'll also cite racism for that decision. Ya can't win in the game of 'you're a racist! you're a racist!'
Nice segue into that plug, by the way, you marketing maven, you.
Trying to make a case for racial profiling here?
Shoplifters come in all backgrounds in terms of ethnicities and income levels, and in contrary to your stereotypical broadbrushing, most lifters aren't poor.
Loss prevention focuses on identifying by behavior, not race or ethnicity.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and venture a wild guess that somewhere along the line, someone at Kroger fired up a calculator, crunched the numbers, and decided this made more sense than closing down the store.
I wonder if the number crunchers factored in the losses across the corporation from lawsuits and boycotts due to outrage over the enhanced security?
Because he/she agreed to put in the store in a majority black and lower income area. The action in an of itself implies that the population of the store itself is inferior to other shoppers so require a different "handling" in regards to the methods to prevent so-called theft.
And FWIW I bet the manager wasn't the one who made the ultimate decision, but IMO he/she should have advised against it. Something like that being put up in metro Atlanta in a black, poorer neighborhood automatically will make the news and paint them as being racist. That is the way it is in Atlanta. The manager going along with it IMO is racist by association.
Since when does a store manager have any input in where a store is opened? And how do you know he didn't advise against it?
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