Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why not Poroshenko dissembled then dragged his feet? Poroshenko may well have agreed after that 6 hour delay. But what was Biden to do. Move to Ukraine until Poroshenko extracted a letter from Shokin with it per Ukrainian law formalized by Parliament?
The larger point is that Trump was allegedly holding up military aid and requesting an investigation of Biden firing that prosecutor (Shokin) - all from a false premise spread by Giuliani and Solomon who can't get their facts straight.
Trump brought that CFR video up on the Zelensky call (albeit with the reference deleted from readout per Vindman testimony), saying "he stopped the prosecution." Then asked for an investigation.
If concerned, Trump could have checked with his own National Security Council for relevant information - they had the Biden dates - with the rest easily obtainable. The State Department could have explained the conditions connected to the loan guarantees.
The facts (certainly connected to Joe Biden) and US negotiating criteria were here in the United States with poor Zelensky then having to ask for Trump to send him some additional information.
This ^^^ is why folks like Vindman found the Biden investigative request in that phone call to be so strange even without their personal knowledge of the particulars. The starting point for an inquiry concerning the behavior for the former Vice President would literally be down the White House hall not made to a foreign leader. Zelensky (or Ukraine) had no access to that kind of information - about why Biden acted as he did.
Last edited by EveryLady; 11-19-2019 at 12:14 PM..
What are you talking about. Holmes was sitting next to Sondland and could hear Trump on the other end of the phone because he was speaking so loudly. He heard both sides of the conversation and heard Trump asking for the opening of an investigation into the Bidens.
He wasn't a party to the call and there's no guarantee he heard the person on the other end correctly. This is no different than Yovanovitch testifying under oath that the Obama Admin never raised the issue of Hunter Biden and Burisma with her, and then later in the day having to admit that the Obama Admin prepped her on how to answer questions about it for her Senate confirmation hearing. Lies. Sooooo... many lies.
Why not Poroshenko dissembled then dragged his feet? Poroshenko may well have agreed after that 6 hour delay. But what was Biden to do. Move to Ukraine until Poroshenko extracted a letter from Shokin with it per Ukrainian law formalized by Parliament?
The larger point is that Trump was allegedly holding up military aid and requesting an investigation of Biden firing that prosecutor (Shokin) - all from a false premise spread by Giuliani and Solomon who can't get their facts straight.
Trump brought that CFR video up on the Zelensky call (albeit with the reference deleted from readout per Vindman testimony), saying "he stopped the prosecution." Then asked for an investigation.
If concerned, he could have checked with his own National Security Council for relevant information - they had the Biden dates - with the rest easily obtainable. The State Department could have explained the conditions connected to the loan guarantees.
The facts (certainly connected to Joe Biden) and US negotiating criteria were here in the United States with poor Zelensky then having to ask for Trump to send him some additional information.
This ^^^ is why folks like Vindman found the Biden investigative request in that phone call to be so strange - even without knowledge of the particulars. The starting point for inquiry concerning the behavior for the former Vice President would literally be down the White House hall not made to a foreign leader. Zelensky had no access to these particulars.
Of course, the logical conclusion to that thought is that Trump did not actually care about whether the Bidens were actually subject to a competent investigation or ultimately charged with a crime. The goal appeared not to be the justice, but the appearance and announcement of an investigation that could Trump could reference in on the campaign trail in order to cause American voters to infer wrongdoing by Biden.
He wasn't a party to the call and there's no guarantee he heard the person on the other end correctly. This is no different than Yovanovitch testifying under oath that the Obama Admin never raised the issue of Hunter Biden and Burisma with her, and then later in the day having to admit that the Obama Admin prepped her on how to answer questions about it for her Senate confirmation hearing. Lies. Sooooo... many lies.
You have sworn testimony from at least one witness guaranteeing that he heard Trump on the other end correctly. Your refusal to accept that fact underscores your lack of interest in the truth and your ready acceptance of the most bald excuse provided it supports your preconceived position.
- his interpretation based on his (Vindman's) military background that Trump's requesta (do me a favor) was in fact a demand
- he and Schiff claim to not know the whistle-blower but will not name the individual/s who he shared the information with and Schiff stopped him from answering the question.
- his unwillingness to acknowledge that Biden used coercion to get a prosecutor filed ostensibly because Ukraine was not part of his brief at the time and so he was unfamiliar with the circumstances.
I don't question his integrity or service to the country but if I were on a jury, based on his performance, I'd have misgivings about his testimony.
Ms Williams, OTOH, came across as a straight shooter.
I don’t see it that way when listening to his responses to those questions.
1) President is the Commander and Chief, if the President says do something it’s taken as an order by Military personnel because of his position. I cannot discredit him for that and don’t hold it against him. After all why would the President state “do me a favor” if it was not a request or in military terms a order, or demand when factoring in a hot war and 200 million in aid from the Commander and Chief.
2) He states he only knew of the Biden situation via these proceedings and a video clip. He even stated in the open under Nunez questioning that he was not involved with the Biden and Ukraine situation, I don’t hold that against him. If this goes to the Senate I’m sure someone with direct knowledge would be called.
I have no misgivings about his testimony. He stated what he knew and didn’t on thinga he was not a part of. That's all you can ask of a fact witness. Even when Jordan tried to fuzzy up his timeline of who and when he reported the situation it didn’t change. He stated what happened, Jordan pressed, same timeline, Democrat asked immediately after and the timeline was the same.
I had no issue with his testimony.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
