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Does it really matter whether someone is mentally ill or just bad? Both are a danger to society and should be locked up, or at least not allowed to own guns.
Don't confuse any of what I have said with me advocating that the mentally ill should be allowed to own guns or at least not without much more stringent laws and oversight. The vast majority of the mentally ill are not a danger to anyone with the possible exception to themselves. So they should be locked up to make you feel better? I'm not sure mass shootings would go down at all. And who gets to decide what people are "just bad" and what should be done with them? You?
People lok for easy answers. Many folks here think just locking up the "mentally ill" with fix the problem. But they cannot explain why other countries with similiar mental health issues do have the same amount of shootings as we do.
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All this, but a glaring statistic remains: Americans are 10 times more likely to die from gunfire(www.businessinsider.com) than are citizens of other high-income countries with similar rates of mental health issues.
Also, what mental illness causes folks to do this? A lot of people, myself included, are on medication for anxiety and depression. I called seeking help from a hotline the other day and basically was told to try breathing excersices after I told them I was feeling suicidal and that my anxiety had me bouncing off the walls. This is what most people with mental illness have, depression and/or anxiety. Do I need to be locked up so you'll feel better about yourself? I am about as likely to go on a rampage as I am to fly to the moon
So they should be locked up to make you feel better? I'm not sure mass shootings would go down at all. And who gets to decide what people are "just bad" and what should be done with them? You?
No, I was responding to the cause of mass shootings: mental illness or just bad guys. So the mentally ill I was referring to are the ones who commit, or would commit, mass murder.
One of the issues is under reporting of mental issues because of the stigma, some states only report single digits and we now that cant be true. Then there is the inability of even family members to order removal of guns from at risk relatives.
There are no restrictions on family members keeping guns locked up. I wish more would do so.
OK, this is the real truth - the SAD truth - and I have too much personal experience with this, believe me! My dad was rock solid. He was a veteran, and a business owner, and a very responsible person in so many ways. But he was also a classic enabler. He was in denial for DECADES about my mother's very serious mental health issues (which I believe my brother inherited). FINALLY in the 1990s, he insisted she be evaluated and treated - and she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder 1 - the most serious form of bipolar disorder. But get this - she and my dad agreed for her NOT TO TAKE MEDICATIONS because THEY WERE AFRAID THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO POSSESS FIREARMS IF SHE WAS ON MEDICATIONS OR UNDER A DOCTOR'S CARE. Now - my dad could buy firearms legally day in and day out and in fact, he did own some firearms and owned them legally. But he was so afraid he'd be kept from owning firearms if his wife was on medication that HE DENIED HER THE TREATMENT SHE DESPERATELY NEEDED (for the record, she denied she ever even had a problem).
Now. My dad had a safe. He kept his firearms locked up, except for the gun he carried on his person sometimes (with a permit). My mother did not know how to get into the safe. For the record, she didn't even care about the safe or firearms for that matter. But my dad was so afraid that his guns would be confiscated if she was on meds, that he wouldn't wouldn't let her take them (not difficult to do since she didn't want to take them anyway).
Unbelievable.
I hate to say this but I didn't have much sympathy for Adam Lanza's mother when he killed her before killing all those students in a mass shooting. She had allowed him full access to firearms and she knew he was mentally ill. Seriously mentally ill.
Now both my parents are dead but my brother is still able to find people who will give him access to and possession of and ownership of guns.
No, I was responding to the cause of mass shootings: mental illness or just bad guys. So the mentally ill I was referring to are the ones who commit, or would commit, mass murder.
Fair point, but you are still supposed that a fair number of mass shootings are committed by the mentally ill
Does it really matter whether someone is mentally ill or just bad? Both are a danger to society and should be locked up, or at least not allowed to own guns. But good luck with that one; we are so awash with guns it is not possible to prevent people who should not have one from getting one somehow. Of course some of the people who advocate a very literal reading of 2A believe it does not restrict anyone, sane or not, from having a gun. The whole thing is a mess. The irony is, at this point we can't get rid of 2A for the very reason the pro-2A crowd says - only the law abiding people will surrender them.
It is a hugggggge felony to get caught with any gun if you've been convicted of a previous felony.
If an ex-con lives in a house with a gun that is owned by someone else, that's hugely illegal too....and the co-owner would probably face charges too.
Mentally ill I'm more on the fence about, because where do we draw the line?
What, anyone who takes an antidepressant shouldn't be allowed to own a gun?
That's gun death rates, not murder rates. Suicides make up at least 6 out of 10 gun deaths.
According to your source, the homicide rate for Maryland is about double that of Texas. Most homicides are committed with a firearm. Also, most homicides are gang related. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
Do you by chance have any source material to back up your opinions or should we just take your word for it? I myself don't pretend to have any far reaching solution to the epidemic that seems to largely be an American situation. I do know there are mentally ill people all over the world and that, in fact, not all people who go on shooting rampages are, in fact, mentally ill. Some of just bad people. Some have serious anger issues not described as a mental illness. The mentally ill get blacmed for a lot of bad things in this country that they are not guilty of.
I found a quote by President Trump that I found interesting to say the least.
The interesting thing to me is that he also blamed hatred. I think he may have been onto something and not realized it. Hatred and anger, two look alike cousins, do cause a lot of people to go on shooting sprees. Neither of the two are mental illness. And neither are the sole reason for a shooting. For example, I am angry at that blown call in the Ohio State game the other hate and I freely admit that I hate President Trump. But I am not going to kill anyone because of it.
There are no easy answers to tis, but that's what some people want. Others would just rather blame the other political party which is why we have these posts where someone claims that "thirteen of the top ten murder capitals of the country are Demonrats or Rethugicans or what have you. There are no easy answers and before you think that only the mentally ill go on shooting sprees, you might want to look around the internet a bit more
Just statistics that anyone can google.
I'm not saying its just mental illness that is behind all the shootings. And not clinically mentally ill (the article is based on a Swedish study of severely mentally ill :Objective: This study aimed to determine the population impact of patients with severe mental illness on violent crime. Method: Sweden possesses high-quality national registers for all hospital admissions and criminal convictions. All individuals discharged from the hospital with ICD diagnoses of schizophrenia and other psychoses (N=98,082) were linked to the crime register to determine the population-attributable risk of patients with severe mental illness to violent crime. The attributable risk was calculated by gender, three age bands (15–24, 25–39, and 40 years and over), and offense type. but many of these shooters have a been on meds and or had some personal issues.
As you said many people feel hatred and anger but most of them dont actually go shoot someone because of it. So what is the difference in you hating Trump or being angry and acting like a normal reasonable person and the person sitting next to you being angry and hating Trump and getting a gun and opening fire?
Feel free to immigrate there. I'm sure Somalia would be glad to have you
No need. The NRA has turned the US into a Somalian-like nation (those with most powerful firearm and most ammo rules).
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