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I was in Vietnam. I saw them flying overhead...………..and saw an example of what they could do...…...this was 50 years ago......
And with today's technology they can fire cruise missiles and other precision, guided munitions so they don't even have to be anywhere near the target. They are then not vulnerable to SAMS or AAA.
Because a missile with a 3,000 mile range is not very impressive if it's payload is only a 2,000 lb conventional warhead.
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Originally Posted by rjshae
Presumably B-52s would be a follow-on force for use after the Iranian air defenses are taken down. Or possibly they'll be used in Iraq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbrianbush
Our F-35s may be used to sneak in destroy Iranian air defenses to clear the way for the B-52s. Am I right?
Nope.
There are a number of major differences between Iraqi air defenses and Iranian air defenses.
Iraqi air defenses were static. That means you always know exactly where they are.
Iranian air defenses are highly mobile. You never know where they will be.
Iraq did not have a true umbrella. They purchased a mish-mash of air defense systems from different countries and were too cheap to spend the money on the contracts, so all they got for training was a bare bones crash course in operations and maintenance.
The Iranians do have a true umbrella and they were trained by the best, the US and Russians.
Remember Al Haig? That's what he did in Iran. He was a lieutenant general then, and Iran had bought 8 battalions of HAWKs and they were trained by US Army personnel. The Iranians were trained by Russian military personnel for the Russian systems they purchased.
The Iraqi systems were older and not capable of tracking stealth aircraft.
The Iranian systems are very, very new and quite capable of tracking stealth aircraft.
Iraq had no surface-to-surface anti-ship missile systems, but Iran has a few thousand anti-ship SSMs.
It's unlikely they'd actually sink an aircraft carrier, but they don't have to sink one. They just have to damage the flight deck or elevators or the catapult systems.
That would mean the US has fewer aircraft to use.
Iraq made no attempt to target early warning aircraft, but Iran is likely to do so, and without them, pilots fly blind. Iran also has advanced jamming systems for radar and communications.
B-52s are likely to initiate an attack with air-launched cruise missiles (in combination with sea-launched cruise missiles) targeting power plants, communications and command and control.
While that is the right thing to do, and it did have a very detrimental effect on Iraqi air defenses, since they were under a central command, that is not the case for Iran. Iranian air defense units have an organic fire direction center under local command, instead of a centralized command.
Also, Saddam directed the Iraqi military, while Iranian units have decentralized commands. Saddam was not a very good general.
So, Iran has missiles. Why don't you tell us what the payloads are? Because a missile with a 3,000 mile range is not very impressive if it's payload is only a 2,000 lb conventional warhead.
You are correct: it's like the take-down ability of a gun vs range... always a trade-off. But I used the map displaying Iran's missile ranges while responding to someone concerned about range specifically.
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Originally Posted by Mircea
Nope. (F-35s used for taking out Iranian air defenses)
As a matter of fact - that is exactly one of the roles the F-35 will be used for: ground attack. Once stand-off cruise missiles have done their work and F-22s have gained air superiority, the F-35 will mop-up mobile assets. I think you're thinking about taking out radar - that will be done by Navy F-18 Growlers armed with HARM missiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
There are a number of major differences between Iraqi air defenses and Iranian air defenses. Iraqi air defenses were static. That means you always know exactly where they are. Iranian air defenses are highly mobile. You never know where they will be.
Iraq did not have a true umbrella. They purchased a mish-mash of air defense systems from different countries and were too cheap to spend the money on the contracts, so all they got for training was a bare bones crash course in operations and maintenance. The Iranians do have a true umbrella and they were trained by the best, the US and Russians.
The Iranian systems are very, very new and quite capable of tracking stealth aircraft.
Correct again: things are quite different in Iran, but US technology is much different now too.
For example: Israel, flying US-made F-35 Lightning IIs have routinely flown hundreds of kilometers through Syrian airspace 'protected' by Russian S-300 and their new, highly-touted S-400 air defense systems with impunity.
Further proof is that no Russian fighters were ever scrambled to intercept!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Iraq had no surface-to-surface anti-ship missile systems, but Iran has a few thousand anti-ship SSMs. It's unlikely they'd actually sink an aircraft carrier, but they don't have to sink one. They just have to damage the flight deck or elevators or the catapult systems. That would mean the US has fewer aircraft to use.
That's if the carrier was in the Arabian/Persian Gulf which they are not. Currently the Carrier Strike Group 8, made up of Nimitz-class nuclear attack aircraft carrier, USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75), and joined by Destroyer Squadron 28: USS Lassen (DDG-82), USS Farragut (DDG-99) and USS Forrest Sherman (DDG-98) is off the coast of Somalia in the Indian Ocean, out of reach of Iranian ballistic missiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
B-52s are likely to initiate an attack with air-launched cruise missiles (in combination with sea-launched cruise missiles) targeting power plants, communications and command and control.
You are exactly right! Gotta love the BUFF.[/quote]
Wonder if they would go after the Karun river Hydro plants?..... Almost 10,000 Mws of generation plus the water supply for Tehran .....Great targets..............
Wonder if they would go after the Karun river Hydro plants?..... Almost 10,000 Mws of generation plus the water supply for Tehran .....Great targets..............
If the purpose is to create the greatest possible amount of human misery without substantially reducing military capability.
Iran and Syria have a strategic alliance so not un-conceivable that Russia could assist Iran. Now were not only in a war with Iran we face Russian ICBM's. If there is any serious conflict directly between Russia and the US it will go Nuclear.
Iran and Syria have a strategic alliance so not un-conceivable that Russia could assist Iran. Now were not only in a war with Iran we face Russian ICBM's. If there is any serious conflict directly between Russia and the US it will go Nuclear.
Well, Russia just as well supported Vietnam and North Korea while the US was fighting those wars.
Iran and Syria have a strategic alliance so not un-conceivable that Russia could assist Iran. Now were not only in a war with Iran we face Russian ICBM's. If there is any serious conflict directly between Russia and the US it will go Nuclear.
Russia is not going to back Iran to that degree, maybe provide heavy defensive weapons at the most, but seriously doubt even that if a full scan conflict between the US and Iran broke out. There most likely will be some covert things, contractor group advisement activities that would be going on, but that would be more for the benefit of Russia than overly benefiting Iran. Russia even observed the sanctions on Iran.
Regarding Syria, there has been slight friction between Iran and Russia, my opinion is Putin is glad Soleimani is dead, as he had a much higher influence on Assad than Russia had, thus creating some issues.
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