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Do you not understand that they chased him up and down the road. He had already turned to run the other way and they continued to chase him. This time driving pass him and stopped in the road and stood there waiting for him with loaded guns? He tried to keep running and they wouldn't let him. Why would he wait for the police? How was he to know that the police had been called? These guys were not police officers why would he surrender to them? So his only options were to continue to run or defend himself. He tried the first option and they didn't let him go. He was left to defend himself.
lol Those aren't the only options. The other option, which was the smart move, was to wait it out.
The two guys are the aggressors, they are the ones who initiated the hostile confrontation, with their guns.
I just cannot run up to you with a gun out ordering you to do something, then when you fight back for your life and I shoot you, I claim self defense.
The two guys were the initiators, but Arbery was the escalator. He turned a potentially deadly situation into a deadly situation when he chose to attack the man with the gun & try to take it away from him.
I don't think the two men who chased him are without fault. They're idiots to do what they did. I don't like it one bit. Still, what maters is the law, not my emotions.
The criminal attacked the ones carrying guns. THAT is the reason and is the only thing that matters. Self defense is not a crime.
Looked to me like the person had no choice but to fight. Two armed individuals vs him unarmed, and they started the confrontation. Could be wrong though, I don't have access to the forensics of the case.
That is what I am saying yes. Everything that follows is a result of that.
And this is where the disconnect comes about. Everything that follows, WHICH MATTERS, is based on the criminal not thinking clearly and charging someone with a gun. Nothing to do with hammers or shoes although that is interesting. All that matters is the criminal attacked someone.
The criminal made the wrong choice that led to his death. He was in complete control of that and would still be alive if he didn't make a horrible decision. It was his choice and his choice only when he decided to attack the person with the gun. No one made him do it. Adults own their actions.
Look at the video from inside the house where you can see far more clearly. No boots, no hammer.
I've seen it. Clearly wearing Timberlands & Cargo shorts. Likely carrying the hammer that was dropped in the road that the man was yelling at him to drop. No one credible is still pretending that he was out jogging anymore. We're on to whether or not he was within his rights to attack the man with the gun?
Nothing that happened before what we see on the video matters. At the lightest, it's 2nd degree murder.
Arbery was unarmed and chased down by two men with guns. The father and son are NOT law enforcement, so whatever it was that the two men thought Arbery may have done, they have no authority whatsoever over him, and Ahmaud had no reason to follow whatever commands they may have given him.
I hope they spend the next 25-30 years in prison, and hopefully the father will die in prison.
And this is where the disconnect comes about. Everything that follows, WHICH MATTERS, is based on the criminal not thinking clearly and charging someone with a gun. Nothing to do with hammers or shoes although that is interesting. All that matters is the criminal attacked someone.
The criminal made the wrong choice that led to his death, He was in complete control of that and would still be alive if he didn't make a horrible decision. it was his call, and his call only when he decided to attack the person with the gun.
Correct. Arbery's criminal background, history of the police department, whether or not the neighborhood had burglaries, whether or not he was stealing or just trespassing, cargo shorts, boots, hammer, all side shows.
The only thing that matters is if the shooter reasonably feared for his life when attacked, thus making it self defense?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000
You're emotional and using emotional language that's not accurate or helpful to an honest discussion of the facts. You have no reason to believe these two people, not two carloads full of people. Willing to kill Arbery? I suppose you could twist the situation that way if you wanted to push an agenda? I've yet to hear any rational version of the story where the shooters set out to kill Arbery. It seems to me the idea was to detain him until police got there. Not smart, but certainly not the same as premeditated murder. By that same logic it appears Arbery was also willing to kill the shooter, as his goal was to take the gun away from him.
I never said "premeditated murder", I said willing to kill him. Since it has been stated multiple times that you dont shoot to wound and that you shouldnt pick up a gun unless willing to use it, it is a reasonable assumption that these 2 men absolutely were willing to kill him.
Remember, they didnt just have guns in their cars and saw him, they point blank went to get guns, followed, and then stopped him.
Also, there are unconfirmed reports that the guy videoing was with them,and that he wasnt the only one in that car. So at least 2 cars.
Quote:
What I am saying is Arbery did not initiate the confrontation, but he escalated it & turned it deadly. He was off on the right side of the road, veered all the way across the street and attacked the guy with the gun, trying to take it away from him. How could that guy NOT fear for his life at that point?
Why is it you think the person with a gun should fear for his life, but not the guy who has at least 2 people with guns chasing him shouldnt ?
and you cant claim he didnt know they had guns either.
Nothing that happened before what we see on the video matters. At the lightest, it's 2nd degree murder.
Arbery was unarmed and chased down by two men with guns. The father and son are NOT law enforcement, so whatever it was that the two men thought Arbery may have done, they have no authority whatsoever over him, and Ahmaud had no reason to follow whatever commands they may have given him.
I hope they spend the next 25-30 years in prison, and hopefully the father will die in prison.
This. It doesn't matter if he was casing a construction site... looking in the windows of a new house doesn't mean that you get chased down by rednecks and murdered. My husband works on constructions sites and I've gone over and checked out the houses while he's there. We even went to a vacant house once on a Sunday for about 5 minutes because I wanted to look at the tiles they used on the floor (we are remodeling and were in the area). I had no reason to believe that any random neighbors would decide to come gun us down because that's not how things are supposed to work in this country. Is it possible they might have called the police? Sure. Could we technically have been charged with trespassing? I suppose. Does that warrant the death penalty? Nope. Even if we were wearing boots.
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