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True doctors/scientists are learning as they go with this virus.
But it seems that isn't enough. SEems some people think that once a virus is identified, the treatment, cure, facts about the virus are immediately known.
I'm no medial expert -- but how long have we been fighting to cure cancer, AIDS, etc.
Scientists/researchers around the world are doing the best they can.
They didn't know how it was spread and may have over reacted suggesting it could be on surfaces.......but whatever...at least we are learning.
Would you rather they do nothing, say nothing.....
This is beyond ridiculous anymore. First, it was a "minuscule threat", and it was "don't go out and get masks", and the lock down was "just for 2 weeks so the hospitals aren't overwhelmed", which turned into "it's highly contagious and dangerous" and "wear a mask if you care about anyone" (ludicrous), and "we need to stay locked down longer" (in some places until fricken August), and a whole bunch of "Just you wait..." and "you're selfish" and "good citizen" and "comply", blah, blah, blah to:
"Oh, well, it's actually not spread by touching surfaces...oops, our bad."
And do not sit there and say "Oh we knew that" because if you've visited some of our fine threads on here, many people believed it, and they loved nothing more than to berate people on the basis of "touching things" while you were out in public.
Err on the side of caution? Which side?
The overhyped nonsense that has been going on for months, in which some of us said, from the very beginning, that it was overhyped, with a media gleefully spewing out fear mongering to panic everyone, never once telling anyone the full story, just report "new cases" never ever talk about how many had mild symptoms, nor how fast they recovered, how many actually needed to go to the doctor for treatment, just spewed out numbers to scare the crap out of everyone?
OR
Err on the side of 30+ million people out of work, and small businesses that had been around for a few decades having to close their doors permanently - and their entire lives disrupted, their livelihood disrupted, neighborhoods disrupted. People unable to pay their rent, pay their electric, have enough for food - all disrupted.
Over reaching governments who let out dangerous inmates into society, while arresting people on paddle boards in the middle of the ocean by themselves, or people in parks with their family, not anywhere near anyone else (but go to an overflowing Costco, Wal Mart, Target, local grocery store? No problem!), "tracing" and statements that they "will" find you, isolate you, and watch you, all thrown at the populace.
All of that, when it was said, in the beginning, that it was a "minuscule threat", the WHO to this day has on their website that you don't need to wear a mask if you're healthy unless you're around a Covid19 patient, the numbers were skewed - the NYTimes even admitted that, a doctor/representative admitted that, other doctors and nurses were coming out and admitting that - only to be mocked, censored, or so called "discredited" - the sharp rise in suicide and domestic violence, the rise in drug use and child abuse.
That was all "worth it" to some people on here. Instead of what we should have done, and I said it from the start, as did many others: Protect those who are elderly, have compromised immune systems, have 2 + pre-existing conditions, especially if respiratory conditions (asthma, CF, etc), this country decided to go bat spit crazy and destroy millions of lives that didn't need to be touched at all.
The sad part is, these asclowns are holding us hostage from doing basic things like going to concerts or our kids going to school. I read the CDC guidelines for reopening schools and it's insanity. It basically makes school seem like a prison sentence instead of being actual kids.
Just got off reading a friend's timeline -- a Trump fan. She's rantinga bout New York State not shutting down soon enough -- meanwhile folks here complaining about all shut downs.
...and this is the crap they put into the computer games...that tell us millions will die
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
So...just what have the "experts" gotten right on this virus?
-No human to human transmission
-No need for tests from foreign countries, our own industry or universities-the CDC has this (and banned all other tests). Only to screw the pooch hard and waste a month at the start of this pandemic
-If you touch anything another person has you're going to die.
-We NEED 500,000 ventilators
-2-5 million Americans will die
-Masks bayd
-We need to "lockdown" for a couple of weeks to "flatten the curve"
-You can't go outside without a mask on
-We need to "lockdown" for a few years until there is a vaccine
If it wasn't so serious, our "experts" would be a damn joke. Just what have they gotten right during this whole thing? These "experts" are responsible for 30 million Americans losing their jobs, hundreds of thousands of businesses destroyed, life's savings lost.
We need leaders who can take the diversity of opinions, the multiple variables and inpact, and put it together in a comprehensive strategy that is based on the best info at the time, yet flexible to change and evolve as we know more.
At the Federal level, we are led by a "shiny ball" strategy. Whatever you might think is (or is not) the right strategy, it's hard to ignore the daily reversals and changes of rhetoric, which happened at a much faster pace than any changes by the experts.
CDC may have room for improvement, but they are not the final say on policy. We need someone capable of taking all the info and making a better decision. The current admin has proven that they either can't, or won't do that.
so your take is a President should act independently of our countries medical experts. Got it. That has been the overwhelming criticism of the President, he's acted independently of the experts. You appear to be somewhat mixed up.
Just another indication of how badly our educational system has failed us - people do not understand the scientific method of identifying the problem, gathering relevant data, forming a hypothesis from the data, testing the hypothesis, and modifying the hypothesis after testing when warranted.
Hope I didn't leave out any steps. It's been awhile.
What part of "erring on the side of caution" did you miss? See scientific method explained above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy
This is like anything else. It takes time and research to discover how it is transmitted, if immunity is long lasting, etc. It is the same reason we don't already have a vaccine. It isn't like Hollywood when they inject someone with some special sauce and they go from death rattle to dancing. The vaccine needs to not transfer immunity, it needs to be effective in a very high percentage of the population and have few or short term side effects while also having only a small portion of the population actually contract the virus itself from receiving the vaccine.
All of that stuff takes months, usually years, to figure out. The same way it takes a lot of research to understand how the virus is transmitted. It isn't like they can just look at the virus in a microscope and it is holding up a stopwatch that says "I only last 1 day, 17 hours, 3 minutes and 57 seconds on this surface before I die!"
The OP needs to look around at his or her world. The first cell phones weren't the first cell phones. They were probably the one thousandth iteration of a cell phone. Maybe the first 999 blew up when someone called. It wasn't until the 1000th one that someone figured it how to not kill the user. There isn't much that is gotten right on the very first attempt.
so if "they" need to gather relevant data, test their hypothesis, and research (of course they do) why tell us xyz before they gather relevant data, test their hypothesis, and research?
The experts gave their expert knowledge and advice that leaders used to make life altering decisions that affected everyone.
If you dont yet know, dont give out false information. That is no different than random people going on social media and proclaiming drinking lots of alcohol will kill the virus. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, we havent actually gathered relevant data, tested our hypothesis, or researched it.
Being a Doctor does not automatically mean someone is an expert on Epidemics. That is one of the problems, I saw a study that showed "the opinion of 6000 doctors....". They may be more qualified than you or me, but not experts in epidemics.
As an analogy, it's like having a mechanic weigh in on the environmental effects of the internal combustion engine (whatever you think the effects are, or are not, being a mechanic is related, but not indicative of expertise).
This is a perfect spot for my first post. A better analogy using vehicles is this. This situation is like an engineer telling you not to drive your car because driving it will wear it out.
Then a mechanic says "he's right but that's the price we pay for wanting to have a car to drive"
The engineer has more education than the mechanic....so what?
then why put out guidance in the first place knowing that they have not received sufficient data to make a coherent estimate?
Did Chicken Little err on the side of caution when it claimed the sky was falling? ...or when 2.2 million people were supposed to die?
States were requesting guidance since January which is why it was provided. Remember some states like Florida were scarred because we are a Travel destination and favorite spot for NY'ers which was another concern starting in February. Florida, New York, and California also had cruise ships at sea with sick individuals in January and February, guidance was needed to disembark those people too.
To be honest without that initial guidance Disney World, Universal Studios and Bush Gardens as well as other large tourist attractions that may not have voluntarily closed as early as they did which reduce spread in Florida by a huge margin.
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