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You lost me when you started downplaying the Holocaust.
Other than that - yes you're right - the Bolsheviks were scum and Hitler's (and Mussolini's) rise to power was a reaction to the communist threat to other countries.
550k Jews lived in Germany in 1933. How did he kill 6 million.
In reality, as I said - it's not about "capitalism."
We were discussing the Nazis and their antisemitism, which was 100% about money, bankers, finance, exploitation, war-profiteers, etc. It had nothing to do with Jesus. And Karl Marx, Mikhail Bakunin, Lysander Spooner, all of them had called out the Jews for the same thing.
"Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism… How can you not be an antisemite, being a socialist." - Adolf Hitler
"Auschwitz meant that six million Jews were killed, and thrown on the waste-heap of Europe, for what they were considered: money-Jews. Finance capital and the banks, the hard core of the system of imperialism and capitalism, had turned the hatred of men against money and exploitation, and against the Jews... Antisemitism is really a hatred of capitalism." - Ulrike Meinhof
"Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities... The Jew has emancipated himself in a Jewish manner, not only because he has acquired financial power, but also because, through him and also apart from him, money has become a world power and the practical Jewish spirit has become the practical spirit of the Christian nations. The Jews have emancipated themselves insofar as the Christians have become Jews... In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Judaism." - Karl Marx
"Himself a Jew, Marx has around him, in London and France, but especially in Germany, a multitude of more or less clever, intriguing, mobile, speculating Jews, such as Jews are every where: commercial or banking agents, writers, politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades, with one foot in the bank, the other in the socialist movement, and with their behinds sitting on the German daily press — they have taken possession of all the newspapers — and you can imagine what kind of sickening literature they produce. Now, this entire Jewish world, which forms a single profiteering sect, a people of blooksuckers, a single gluttonnous parasite, closely and intimately united not only across national borders but across all differences of political opinion — this Jewish world today stands for the most part at the disposal of Marx and at the same time at the disposal of Rothschild. I am certain that Rothschild for his part greatly values the merits of Marx, and that Marx for his part feels instinctive attraction and great respect for Rothschild.
This may seem strange. What can there be in common between Communism and the large banks? Oh! The Communism of Marx seeks enormous centralization in the state, and where such exists, there must inevitably be a central state bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, which. speculates on the work of the people, will always find a way to prevail." - Mikhail Bakunin
"The Rothschilds, and that class of money-lenders of whom they are the representatives and agents – men who never think of lending a shilling to their next-door neighbors, for purposes of honest industry, unless upon the most ample security, and at the highest rate of interest – stand ready at all times to lend money in unlimited amounts to those robbers and murderers, who call themselves governments, to be expended in shooting down those who do not submit quietly to being robbed and enslaved.
And why are these men so ready to lend money for murdering their fellow men? Solely for this reason, that such loans are considered better investments than loans for purposes of honest industry. They pay higher rates of interest; and it is less trouble to look after them.
When these great lenders of blood-money, have loaned vast sums in this way, for purposes of murder, to an emperor or a king, they sell out the bonds taken by them, to anybody, and everybody, who are disposed to buy them at satisfactory prices, to hold as investments. They thus soon get back their money, with great profits; and are now ready to lend money in the same way again to any other robber and murderer, called an emperor or king, who, they think, is likely to be successful in his robberies and murders, and able to pay a good price for the money necessary to carry them on.
This business of lending blood-money is one of the most thoroughly sordid, cold-blooded, and criminal that was ever carried on, to any considerable extent, amongst human beings. It is like lending money to slave traders, or to common robbers and pirates, to be repaid out of their plunder. And the men who loan money to governments, so called, for the purpose of enabling the latter to rob, enslave, and murder their people, are among the greatest villains that the world has ever seen. And they as much deserve to be hunted and killed (if they cannot otherwise be got rid of) as any slave traders, robbers, or pirates that ever lived.
When these emperors and kings, so-called, have obtained their loans, they proceed to hire and train immense numbers of professional murderers, called soldiers, and employ them in shooting down all who resist their demands for money. And these heads or chiefs are dependent upon the lenders of blood-money for the means to carry on their robberies and murders. They could not sustain themselves a moment but for the loans made to them by these blood-money loan-mongers. And their first care is to maintain their credit with them; for they know their end is come, the instant their credit with them fails. Consequently the first proceeds of their extortions are scrupulously applied to the payment of the interest on their loans.
In addition to paying the interest on their bonds, they perhaps grant to the holders of them great monopolies in banking, like the Banks of England, of France, and of Vienna; with the agreement that these banks shall furnish money whenever, in sudden emergencies, it may be necessary to shoot down more of their people. Perhaps also, by means of tariffs on competing imports, they give great monopolies to certain branches of industry, in which these lenders of blood-money are engaged. They also, by unequal taxation, exempt wholly or partially the property of these loan-mongers, and throw corresponding burdens upon those who are too poor and weak to resist." - Lysander Spooner
The reason Jews ended up in banking to begin with, was that they were not allowed to own land in Europe that's number one, and number two - I think Christianity prohibits lending money with interest. The point being - the whole "Jewish affair" goes much further back in time that you'd like to present, and the roots of it ARE in the Bible.
But the beef with the Jews has been about money most of that time, going back to at least Martin Luther. Go read "The Jews and their lies", it could have been written by Hitler himself.
"Let the Jews boast, that God has sanctified them through his Law, and chosen them before all people as his peculiar nation. Such is also the glory of the Jews when they boast in their schools, praise and thank god that he has sanctified them through his law and made them his chosen nation, while they are well aware that they are keeping none of those things, are filled with pride, envy, usury, avarice and all meanness, and most of all those among them who act very pious and holy in their prayers.
For they are so blinded that they do not only practice usury (that I should be silent about their other vices), but teach it as a right which God had commanded them through Moses.
They are full of malice, greed, envy, hatred, pride, usury, conceit, and curses against us Gentiles. Their breath stinks with lust for the Gentiles' gold and silver; for no nation under the sun is greedier than they were, still are, and always will be, as is evident from their accursed usury. So they comfort themselves that when the Messiah comes he will take the gold and silver of the whole world and divide it among them. Therefore, wherever they can quote Scripture to satisfy their insatiable greed, they do so outrageously. One is led to believe that God and his prophets knew of nothing else to prophesy than of ways and means to satisfy the bottomless greed of the accursed Jews with the Gentiles' gold and silver.
A person who is unacquainted with the devil might wonder why they are so particularly hostile toward Christians. They have no reason to act this way, since we show them every kindness. They live among us, enjoy our shield and protection, they use our country and our highways, our markets and streets. Meanwhile our princes and rulers sit there and snore with mouths hanging open and permit the Jews to take, steal, and rob from their open money bags and treasures whatever they want. That is, they let the Jews, by means of their usury, skin and fleece them and their subjects and make them beggars with their own money. They do not work, and they do not earn anything from us, nor do we give or present it to them, and yet they are in possession of our money and goods and are our masters in our own country.
A thief is condemned to hang for the theft of ten florins, and if he robs anyone on the highway, he forfeits his head. But when a Jew steals and robs ten tons of gold through his usury,
he is more highly esteemed than God himself.
They say that it is rendering God a service to steal or rob from a Goy, as they in fact do through their usury. For since they believe that they are the noble blood and the circumcised saints and we the accursed Goyim, they cannot treat us too harshly or commit sin against us, for they are the lords of the world and we are their servants... They are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury.
They hold us Christians captive in our own country. They let us work in the sweat of our brow to earn money and property while they sit behind the stove, idle away the time. They stuff themselves, guzzle, and live in luxury and ease from our hardearned goods. With their accursed usury they hold us and our property captive. Moreover, they mock and deride us because we work and let them play the role of lazy squires at our expense and in our land. Thus they are our masters and we are their servants, with our property, our sweat, and our labor. And by way of reward and thanks they curse our Lord and us!" - Martin Luther, 1543
Even for a reason that Hitler considered Christianity as very *inconvenient* religion for Germany, unlike Islam.
I agree. He was annoyed that Christians were basically pacifists, and many would rather lose the war than fight. To the Christian there is no heaven in war. For Muslims there is. He believed if the Germans had been Muslim they would have fought harder and won the war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
And it was not about "money" either. It was all about the racial theory, as I've said. The same concept that was used for attacking Russia.
WWII was inevitable. What most Americans don't realize is that when the Germans "invaded" France, Hitler was merely preempting a French and British invasion. Why do you think the British Army had to be evacuated at Dunkirk? Because the British had already brought in 400,000 troops and equipment into France for the invasion of Germany.
When Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, Stalin had already placed six million troops on the German frontier. Waiting until "The West" had exhausted itself against one another, allowing the Red Army to march across the continent.
"It is my fervent wish that you may at least live to see the day on which the world, and the western nations in particular, will become aware of the bitter truth that it was you and your friend Roosevelt who sold the future to Bolshevism for a cheap personal triumph over nationalistic Germany. This day may come sooner than you like, and you in spite of your advanced age, will be vigorous enough to see it dawn bloody red over the British Isles." - Hermann Goering
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
"Stalin presented the theory of socialism in one country as a further development of Leninism"
Again, the PURPOSE of "socialism in one country" was to strengthen the Soviet Union through rapid industrialization. And had Stalin not done that, he would have been crushed by Hitler, or anyone else. The reason many Russians still praise Stalin is because he made the Russians a superpower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
Why? Because capitalism is every bit as aggressive in its ideology as *communism* is. So there is no sense pointing at "Soviet threat of spreading *communism* globally, because if capitalism wouldn't have remained threatening to Soviets, they'd be content with "building Socialism in one country."
I agree somewhat. The Soviets were threatened by capitalism in the same way that capitalism was threatened by communism. I've already explained why Stalin did what he did, but you seem to take offense when I explain why Hitler did what he did. And the main difference between Germany and the Soviet Union is, Germany was tiny compared to the Soviet Union. The only reason Germany seemed strong was because the Soviets were so backwards. Once the Soviets industrialized with their massive resources, they would necessarily become much much much more powerful than Germany. Just as large countries do(America, China, etc).
People love to say how we had to fight WWII so we wouldn't all be speaking English. Sure, but the world spoke English and Russian instead. And without America holding Stalin back, far more of the world would be speaking Russian.
550k Jews lived in Germany in 1933. How did he kill 6 million.
Doesnt add up
Open a freaking history book. The largest of the death camps was in Poland. The Jews that were killed in the Holocaust came from Germany, Poland, Luxembourg, France, Greece, and all the rest of the territories that Germany conquered.
Seriously, this is sixth grade level history. The fact that you don't know it means you either didn't make it to middle school or you slept through history.
Stop being an apologist. The Holocaust happened. It isn't a fairy tale, and it isn't a theory. It's an ugly part of history that people would like to forget, but ignoring it and/or trying to downplay it won't make it go away.
The reason Jews ended up in banking to begin with, was that they were not allowed to own land in Europe that's number one, and number two - I think Christianity prohibits lending money with interest. And it was not about "money" either. It was all about the racial theory, as I've said.
I disagree - it was indeed all about money. When Hitler took power Germany was still reeling from the Great Depression, and he had to find ways to fund his war plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
We were discussing the Nazis and their antisemitism, which was 100% about money, bankers, finance, exploitation, war-profiteers, etc. It had nothing to do with Jesus.
^^^This!!!
It was Economic Antisemitism - Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany’s humiliation in World War I and also espoused the myth that Jewish businesses had grown rich by taking advantage of post-war Germany. In 1938 Hitler issued a decree that all Jews had to report all their wealth. Then by vilianizing Jews, Hitler was able to confiscate their wealth, void loans and legal contracts in order to fund his military.
Last edited by Rumann Koch; 07-20-2020 at 09:36 AM..
It was Economic Antisemitism - Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany’s humiliation in World War I and also espoused the myth that Jewish businesses had grown rich by taking advantage of post-war Germany.
Hitler blamed the Jews for being war-profiteers in WWI, funding both sides of the war. And that Jews had helped draw the United States into WWI through economic entanglements(IE loaning Britain and France the money to buy goods from the United States to sustain their war effort). Without the United States, Germany would have won WWI. The entirety of WWI was never fought on German soil.
After WWI, Germany was forced to agree to the Treaty of Versailles by the allies, who enforced a blockade which starved the German people. Hundreds of thousands of Germans starved to death from the blockade, even after the armistice, until Germany signed the Treaty of Versailles, which forced Germany to take full responsibility for the war, and pay all of the war debts. And who owned the debt? Bankers of course, international bankers.
As a result of the hyperinflation in the early 1920's, the allies stopped accepting German currency as payment for debts, trading only in commodities. When Germany didn't make the payments, the French occupied an industrial area of Germany called the Ruhr, and confiscated German goods.
During WWI, the British needed Jewish support and Jewish loans to buy goods from the United States. So they promised the Jews, in exchange for their support, the establishment of Israel through the Balfour Declaration.
After WWI, Jewish investors took an opportunity to buy up the country for pennies on the dollar. Almost all of the theaters and newspapers were owned by the Jews, and Jews were heavily overrepresented in government positions. The German people were left destitute, unemployment was through the roof, and Germany had become basically a big brothel, kind of like Eastern Europe after the collapse of communism.
America today is much like Weimar Germany. Massive inequality, but hugely decadent. Massive wealth built on financial speculation. Some extremely rich, others struggling to live with any dignity, suicide-rates skyrocketing, a feeling of hopelessness and despair.
Pretty much every country was antisemitic in the 1930's, and for the same reasons. Go read Henry Ford's "The International Jew". And as I wrote in my earlier post, all of this goes back to at least the middle-ages, what Martin Luther said could have just as well come out of Hitler's mouth, and vice versa. This myth that antisemitism was just a Hitler thing or a Nazi thing or was some kind of scapegoat is nonsense.
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