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Old 08-10-2020, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,111 posts, read 41,284,508 times
Reputation: 45170

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
would you care to point to studies that say that?


Because HQC had very few side effects until COVID19 came along. 65 year history, thousands of studies, very well understood medication used by hundreds of millions of people with latterly more than a billion doses given.


It was NEVER considered "dangerous". In large swaths of the world it is Over The Counter.


Doctors have patients on this drug as a maintenance medication who have taken it for years with no side effects. NOW all the sudden. poof! it kills people. That is a freaking lie. If that were the case, it would not be one of the most prevalent drug on the planet. period.
The increased risk of an electrical conduction abnormality in the heart predisposing to arrhythmia due to either HCQ or azithromycin was well known even before COVID-19 appeared. In addition, COVID-19 patients may be on other drugs which do the same thing. Abnormalities in the heart due to the virus adds additional risk.

That means that the risk profile for someone with a coronavirus infection is different from that of someone with rheumatoid arthritis or using the drug for malaria prevention.

https://www.dicardiology.com/article...cin-being-used

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7211688/

https://www.dicardiology.com/article...hythmia-issues
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:00 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,645,820 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The increased risk of an electrical conduction abnormality in the heart predisposing to arrhythmia due to either HCQ or azithromycin was well known even before COVID-19 appeared. In addition, COVID-19 patients may be on other drugs which do the same thing. Abnormalities in the heart due to the virus adds additional risk.

That means that the risk profile for someone with a coronavirus infection is different from that of someone with rheumatoid arthritis or using the drug for malaria prevention.

https://www.dicardiology.com/article...cin-being-used

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7211688/

https://www.dicardiology.com/article...hythmia-issues
Looks like Donald J. Trump was right again.
Another, "I told you so", in the book.
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:12 AM
 
20,462 posts, read 12,387,859 times
Reputation: 10259
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The increased risk of an electrical conduction abnormality in the heart predisposing to arrhythmia due to either HCQ or azithromycin was well known even before COVID-19 appeared. In addition, COVID-19 patients may be on other drugs which do the same thing. Abnormalities in the heart due to the virus adds additional risk.

That means that the risk profile for someone with a coronavirus infection is different from that of someone with rheumatoid arthritis or using the drug for malaria prevention.

https://www.dicardiology.com/article...cin-being-used

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7211688/

https://www.dicardiology.com/article...hythmia-issues
very minimal risk. I mean VERY minimal. nearly not there but slightly there. nowhere near the hyperbole associated with the mad dash to kill use of this drug.


yet everywhere actual doctors are actually giving it, it works. (given they are doing so in early stages.)
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:15 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,389,243 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
very minimal risk. I mean VERY minimal. nearly not there but slightly there. nowhere near the hyperbole associated with the mad dash to kill use of this drug.


yet everywhere actual doctors are actually giving it, it works. (given they are doing so in early stages.)

Incorrect.


https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-eve...roquine-has-no

...The trial results, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, determined that hydroxychloroquine did not decrease the severity of COVID-19 symptoms over 14 days any better than a placebo...
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
1,081 posts, read 549,269 times
Reputation: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Incorrect.


https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-eve...roquine-has-no

...The trial results, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, determined that hydroxychloroquine did not decrease the severity of COVID-19 symptoms over 14 days any better than a placebo...
Your article is an interpretation of the study. Let's dig into the study.
Just a few key notes:
42% of the test subjects did not have a positive PCR test. They had COVID like symptoms.
As far as Zinc: "Additional post hoc analyses showed that self-reported use of zinc or vitamin C in addition to hydroxychloroquine did not improve symptoms over use of hydroxychloroquine alone"

So they didn't actually test Zinc and HCQ together. They just threw in a comment about it at the end.

The other study that the article quotes by the New England Journal of medicine was already torn apart.
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:48 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,389,243 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlEsc View Post
Your article is an interpretation of the study. Let's dig into the study.
Just a few key notes:
42% of the test subjects did not have a positive PCR test. They had COVID like symptoms.
As far as Zinc: "Additional post hoc analyses showed that self-reported use of zinc or vitamin C in addition to hydroxychloroquine did not improve symptoms over use of hydroxychloroquine alone"

So they didn't actually test Zinc and HCQ together. They just threw in a comment about it at the end.

The other study that the article quotes by the New England Journal of medicine was already torn apart.

He made no mention of zinc in the post I quoted.

Some of the patients also took zinc - why would the patients lie about that?

From the study itself:

...Of 491 patients randomly assigned to a group, 423 contributed primary end point data. Of these, 341 (81%) had laboratory-confirmed infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) or epidemiologically linked exposure to a person with laboratory-confirmed infection...


Also, someone should tell Admiral Giroir, if you're right:

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...studies-say-h/

"There have been five randomized controlled, placebo controlled trials that do not show any benefit to Hydroxychloroquine," Giroir said Aug. 2. "So, at this point in time, we don't recommend that as a treatment. "

Last edited by hooligan; 08-10-2020 at 12:08 PM..
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:52 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
comparing HCQ to Chemo is like comparing a BB gun to a nuclear weapon. These are not similar things.

What part of relative comparison did you miss? The point stands-its all about risk vs benefit. Even aspirin has risks.
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:58 AM
 
13,601 posts, read 4,936,071 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlEsc View Post
If I do get COVID19, I will be asking for HCQ and taking Zinc with it. I have had HCQ before and tolerated it well. I am allergic to azithromycin, so I'll be skipping that one.

HCQ is an ionophore. It allows zinc into the cell to interrupt the ribosome from producing the virus RNA. If given within a few days of symptoms, HCQ can be effective in stopping the progression of the virus.

As stated before, a lot of these studies center on HCQ alone. Once hospitalized, you are already too far along in disease progression for HCQ to be effective. There was one study done in the UK that bordered on torture. The patients were already near death and they dosed the patients with massive doses of HCQ. I hope that those patients were comatose when they dosed them. Otherwise, it was cruel what they did to them.

I wish Trump would have never spoken about HCQ because now we have politically motivated individuals trying to reduce the availability of treatments that have been known as safe for longer than I have been alive. Imagine if this was penicillin that we were talking about. Think of all the people who would suffer because penicillin was suddenly villainized because Trump said something about it.


HCQ is an ionophore. It allows zinc into the cell to interrupt the ribosome from producing the virus RNA. Correction; ribosomes make protein, not RNA If given within a few days of symptoms, HCQ can be effective in stopping the progression of the virus.unproven conjecture

I wish Trump would have never spoken about HCQ Agree; he should keep his trap shut about things he knows nothing of. Both sides subsequently politicized what is a scientific question.
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:59 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
The problem with all of this nonsense? If it worked at all other countries would be using it non stop. Bottom line? It doesnt.
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Old 08-10-2020, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
1,081 posts, read 549,269 times
Reputation: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
The problem with all of this nonsense? If it worked at all other countries would be using it non stop. Bottom line? It doesnt.
There are other countries using it non-stop. You are not allowed to hear about it.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301098030.html
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