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Ban it! Tear it down unlawfully! Hate it! Deface monuments. No need to vote on it. Slavery, racist racist racist racist slavery slavery, repeat.
About 5 or 6 years ago amazon, eBay, and others stopped selling confederate flags due to all the reactionary hoopla. I had no dog in the fight, never lived in the south, never a big Dukes of Hazard fan, and never cared about the confederacy either way.
All this banning frenzy got me interested so I purchased and now fly a confederate flag alongside my U.S. flag as a sign of political protest to those reactionaries tearing down, defacing, and banning not only monuments, statues, and flags associated with the confederacy but others as well.
Confederacy haters are just as annoying as the TDS morons. They go beyond hate and take the law into their own hands. I don’t care if you wear a hat or shirt or fly a flag that’s got BLM on it as annoying and racist as I think that is.
There are many places you can go that if you’re wearing anything MAGA you will get assaulted. Always the left attacking freedom of speech and expression.
Ban it, deface it, tear it down, attack those that display it. I will compensate by putting it back up. Idiots tearing down the Grant statue and Columbus along with plenty of other white representatives that never sided with the confederacy.
I would love to have some of those statues or monuments on my acreage. Don’t like them, ignore them. Seems some enjoy being triggered. Suck it up. Ignore it.
I recently watched a vid of some media outlet interviewing a homeowner that had a flag on his private property. I would have told them to F off. The nerve of these buzzards.
"There are seven traits of conspiratorial thinking 29 ..."
Quote:
Persecuted victim
Conspiracy theorists perceive and present themselves as the victim of organized persecution.29 At the same time, they see themselves as brave antagonists taking on the villainous conspirators. Conspiratorial thinking involves a self-perception of simultaneously being a victim and a hero.
Now after the war was over many of those Confederate officers were key to the rebuilding of cities and towns fully destroyed by union troops. They had the money, manpower, and leadership abilities to help get the job done to rebuild communities. Some of those monuments were in recognition to their activities following the war.
And that is why they put them in uniform with their full military title, right? Because that makes so much sense. Post-fact reasoning.
Quote:
Before people call for removal of statues and monuments they should look at newspaper articles of the time they were erected to see why the people of the time saw fit to honor these individuals.
You really want to open that can of worms? OK, I'll give you one. You won't like it.
Here's an article on the speech given at the dedication of "Silent Sam", the monument commemorating UNC students who'd fought for the CSA.
But it's just about bravery and respect and sorrow, right? Let's see...
Troy, Achilles, Sparta, yadda yadda - the women of the South were like Penelope, etc., tons of allusions.
Oh, a concrete reference:
Quote:
The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South – When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States – Praise God.
Hmmm... Yeah, that doesn't sound like great praise for reconstruction efforts, does it? The bottom rail was on top, but those splendid examples of the "purest strain of the Anglo Saxon" set that to rights. And just who could that "bottom rail" allude to? Damn, that's tricky.
Hey - there's a personal anecdote, too:
Quote:
I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head.
Ah, memories! The Alma Mater saw to it that you could be protected from the consequences of horse-whipping negro wenches, those were the days! (And "pleasing duty", really?)
That was the message designed to please the crowd as this particular statue was unveiled. And - unlike the statue - you have to dig to find those words. They're not on the website of the Daughters of the Confederacy.
Stinkingly ironic in light of the feeble arguments presented that "It's history". The statues do not tell the story of who erected them and why, the speeches do. And it's an ugly, ugly story.
I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds...
Last edited by Dane_in_LA; 08-22-2020 at 11:37 AM..
Stephen Douglas, for his own political benefit, undid the compromises of Henry Clay that deferred the war. John Y. Brown, a crazed murderous terrorist, was lauded by newspapers across the north. And Roger Taney in Dred Scott ruled that slavery was basically legal everywhere. The Civil War really started in 1858 in Bleeding Kansas, thanks to Stephen Douglas.
The extremists on both sides took charge.
Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina and Virginia refused to secede until the Lincoln started raising an army to invade the 7 originally seceding states.
We owe the Republican Party ZERO gratitude for manumission. None.
Freeing the slaves was part of an overarching strategy to weaken the south. Not because anyone thought slavery was necessarily wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
The British Colonies belonged to Great Britain until July 4th, 1776.
I would argue that after our assertion of independence there was in fact a British invasion of what had become the former British colonies.
The only consistent argument you can make for invading the southern states after their independence had been declared is the people do not have a right to chart their own destiny.
The South didn’t leave peacefully. They did it militarily. The attack on Sumpter was more than enough reason to aggressively attack the southern states and return some semblance of order to the nation. The South brought it on themselves. They were so paranoid about the end of slavery and their ability to beat, rape, torture, overwork and sell family members away that it led them to make a bad decision.
A bad decision that I’m quite happy they made. Frankly, I wish more Southerners had been killed in the Civil War.
"I do believe the slaves would have been freed by the south". The invention of the cotton gin negated the need for slaves to pick the cotton so in time they would have been freed anyway.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
The cotton gin PROCESSED cotton, it didn’t pick it. The cotton gin had already been around for decades before slavery ended. There were no machines to pick cotton until sometime in the 1920’s. And people were still picking cotton for decades after that because the machines weren’t cheap and widely available.
So no, slaves wouldn’t have been freed for decades to come. Slavery needed to end RIGHT THEN and not another day later.
Besides, they also wanted to keep slaves out of Southern society’s need to be cruel to another race of people. They enjoyed the evil they routinely committed...especially the rapes.
Which is why I hold the politicians accountable for the war on both sides. In hindsight, there were better ways they could have gone about this without resorting to war but corrupt politicians, wealthy businessmen, and pig headed stubborn idealist would not budge from the course that ultimately led to war.
Nope. It had to be war. There was no other way. The South wouldn’t stop trying to propagate slavery in all the new states despite most of the nation wanting no part of it.
The South had to be physically whipped out of their stupidity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggT
Glad to know you will not be moving South to escape high taxes and your crime. I'm sure if you did, you would be working hard to make your new home just like the old one you just escaped from!
But it's just about bravery and respect and sorrow, right? Let's see...
Troy, Achilles, Sparta, yadda yadda - the women of the South were like Penelope, etc., tons of allusions.
Oh, a concrete reference:
Hmmm... Yeah, that doesn't sound like great praise for reconstruction efforts, does it? The bottom rail was on top, but those splendid examples of the "purest strain of the Anglo Saxon" set that to rights. And just who could that "bottom rail" allude to? Damn, that's tricky.
Hey - there's a personal anecdote, too:
Ah, memories! The Alma Mater saw to it that you could be protected from the consequences of horse-whipping negro wenches, those were the days! (And "pleasing duty", really?)
That was the message designed to please the crowd as this particular statue was unveiled. And - unlike the statue - you have to dig to find those words. They're not on the website of the Daughters of the Confederacy.
Stinkingly ironic in light of the feeble arguments presented that "It's history". The statues do not tell the story of who erected them and why, the speeches do. And it's an ugly, ugly story.
I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds...
Some of the more disgusting Confederate memorials & statues littering our public spaces have already been removed.
For example, the following inscription was added to the Battle of Liberty Place Monument in New Orleans in 1932:
Quote:
Democrats McEnery and Penn having been elected governor and lieutenant-governor by the white people, were duly installed by this overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers, Governor Kellogg (white) and Lieutenant-Governor Antoine (colored).
United States troops took over the state government and reinstated the usurpers but the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state.
It's worth noting this piece of garbage came down on April 24, 2017, a day that is still observed in some parts of the USA as Confederate Memorial Day.
Stephen Douglas, for his own political benefit, undid the compromises of Henry Clay that deferred the war. John Y. Brown, a crazed murderous terrorist, was lauded by newspapers across the north. And Roger Taney in Dred Scott ruled that slavery was basically legal everywhere. The Civil War really started in 1858 in Bleeding Kansas, thanks to Stephen Douglas.
The extremists on both sides took charge.
Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina and Virginia refused to secede until the Lincoln started raising an army to invade the 7 originally seceding states.
If I recall correctly you said I had "a simple notion of what happened". As if you would actually include any supporting evidence to back up your own simplistic notions.
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Originally Posted by bu2
As is your simple notion of what happened.
& just to correct my own mistake, the following may have been my 1st response to the OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest
The 'long story short' version answer, imho, is that they never should have been.
The little bit longer explanation of why they were, & continue to be, imho, is because of the peculiarities & idiosyncratic nature of our Country & its peoples.
We have our strengths, & we have our weaknesses, however, without a doubt, there IS such a thing as American culture.
The fact that the American Civil War still divides US is likely our most unhealthy weakness.
Why are we still divided?
In my opinion, rather than admit our mistakes, we 'double down' on the dumbness. Rather than use critical & creative thinking strategies, processes, & the like, we stubbornly & stupidly 'stick to our guns'. Stubbornness is often mistaken for stupidity when it would be beneficial to identify it for what it is.
It's worth noting this piece of garbage came down on April 24, 2017, a day that is still observed in some parts of the USA as Confederate Memorial Day.
If I recall correctly you said I had "a simple notion of what happened". As if you would actually include any supporting evidence to back up your own simplistic notions.
& just to correct my own mistake, the following may have been my 1st response to the OP:
You said we had a war because "slave states would not be appeased."
That's pretty simplistic. And factually wrong. Had they let the original 7 states go, there would not have been a war. Had they not held onto forts blocking the South's ports, they wouldn't have been fired on.
People have spent careers studying the causes of the Civil War. People think they can explain it in a couple of words, "states rights" or "slavery."
If you really could describe it in one or two words, the best explanation would be "economics." You had disparate economic systems, manufacturing vs. large farms, that lead to different needs from the federal government. Ultimately that lead to conflict. New England nearly seceded in 1814 over trade and the War of 1812 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartfo...s%20increasing) .
South Carolina nearly seceded in 1831 over tariffs.
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