Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In light of some recent threads concerning the topic , I thought I'd fire up one of my own for the purpose of condensing my own thoughts on the matter .
So first of all I think the way data collection regarding the subject is done in this country is completely ridiculous , because it fails to take into consideration the huge class differences within a race with respect to this issue when comparing rates between different races ...
In other words were a proper study to be done , I'd bet an eighth ( or maybe even a quarter ) of my paycheck that one would find that the crime rate for lower/working class men of all races is fairly similar when compared to middle class men of all races , and so on up the line .
For example if one were to line up the white lower/working class boys and their black counterparts from my graduating year and go over their rap sheets , then you'd find that they would be much closer to each other than their middle class varieties of both racial counterparts .
Of course there would be major differences with respect to types of crime committed ( with the white boys leading the charge with respect to assault/violent crime and the black boys leading the charge with respect to drug offenses ) but said differences ( IMHO ) can be attributed to the different criminal cultural styles if you will , that exist between various races .
A topic that would take a whole different thread unto itself , yet suffice to say that certain racial/ethnic categories in this country have developed ( typically ) lower/working class criminal subcultures that exalt distinct criminal archetypes , two of which I'll be briefly fleshing out below .
One is the streetwise money making hustler , more prominent among White Ethnic ( Irish , Italian , Polish , etc. ) and Black American criminal , and the other more prominent among Old Stock ( for purposes of this discussion basically redneck ) White American and Hispanic criminals is the badass outlaw warrior .
Streetwise money making hustlers are pretty much money making oriented criminals , whereas badass outlaw warriors are pretty much action or muscle power oriented criminals , with the distinction perhaps seeming meaningless but still important as I'll describe below .
After all when one compares the Italian American Mafia ( representing White Ethnics ) and any of the sophisticated Black American drug syndicates ( like Rick Ross's organization ) to the Aryan Brotherhood or La Eme , then what are the two big differences one can immediately notice ?
One ( the Mafia and Black drug syndicates ) rules with brains/business finesse , while the other ( the AB and La Eme ) rules through fear via their propensity to dish out brutal violence .
Of course one aspect doesn't cancel the other , but the point is I highly doubt that one can dispute that LCN families and Black drug syndicates have derived much of their power from their knowledge of knowing how to game the system/play the angles , whereas the AB and La Eme have always mainly relied on the fact of inspiring sheer terror through their use of brutal violence .
These differences can be attributed to the specific cultural values the criminal subcultures from which these organizations have sprung forth from , as opposed to any intrinsic racial difference IMHO .
I could go on , but for the sake of brevity I'll continue on in my next post where I'll delve into why I think the Asian crime rate in this country is underreported and thus artificially low , as well as my thoughts on common non gang affiliated criminals of all races .
Before I begin , I'd like to state that my following posts will generally follow a ( for lack of a better term ) stream of consciousness format ...
That is they won't be arranged in any particular order/I'll be writing down essentially whatever comes to mind with respect to this issue , since I'm not aiming to come off as academic or anything .
Anyways to get to it , I honestly think the Asian crime rate in this country is vastly under reported and I'll be fleshing out my reasons why :
For starters it's a simple fact that US law enforcement simply doesn't have the resources to ( f.ex ) investigate Asian organized crime groups , the way it does White/Black/even Hispanic organized crime groups , what with there being a lack of Asian American undercover cops and even non Asian American cops who have at least knowledge of the various languages spoken by these organized crime groups .
The second reason is that ( as anyone who's familiar with the topic knows ) Asian OC groups more often than not tend to prey on their own community , whose members are oftentimes composed of immigrants with limited English skills as well as attitudes that are ambivalent/apprehensive towards the authorities in general .
Another thing that often gets forgotten is that many of the rackets ( such as gambling and prostitution ) that Asian OC groups frequently engage in tend to be of lower priority for law enforcement/attract much less press attention and thus those who engage in it don't tend to get prosecuted/punished as much as those who engage in ( say ) drug and arms trafficking .
In short I believe that the Asian male incarceration rate in this country could be much more similar to the Black/Hispanic/White male incarceration rate if US law enforcement was able to crack down on Asian criminals to the extent of their Hispanic/White/Black counterparts .
And in case anyone wonders what one of my angles is with this thread , I'd like to state that it's to put forth the idea that criminality isn't limited to nor the exclusive/predominant problem of any one race in this country , in fact it only takes different cultural forms due to the diverse cultural backgrounds of the various racial groups which inhabit this country .
Not to mention that ( IMHO ) the disparities which exist are to a great extent due to differences in residential patterns ( i.e. members of certain races are more likely to live in urban areas which favor street gangs , who are more likely to stick out to law enforcement than f.ex mobsters ) and a myriad of other factors I'll be getting into .
I'll be posting some more soon enough and feel free to tell me what you think y'all .
Another thing that popped into my head is that there are ( fairly strange/unexplained ) cases of criminals of a certain ethnic ( particularly from a certain region ) committing a disproportionate amount of certain types of crime ( s ) compared to criminals of another ethnic group in this country ...
A great example of this is that of the numerous Irish American armored car/bank robbery crews that were formed in/primarily operated in the Boston metro area , from roughly the post WW2 era to the 1990s , though perhaps a bit later ( maybe the 1950s to be exact ) would be a more appropriate date .
I'm really not sure how one can explain why the Irish American criminals of that region ( as opposed to say Portuguese American criminals ) chose to become armored car/bank robbers at such a disproportionate rate , however it's an interesting historical fact that is rather vague/mysterious .
Another thing about Irish American criminals in this country is that they perfected the system of the political boss type gangster ( a la Mike Mc Donald of Chicago or Tom Pendergast of Kansas City ) before that of any ethnic based criminal group , a tradition which had interestingly faded fast away by the time of the Westies had rolled around to make way for brutal/unsophisticated common thuggery .
In all honesty I should have titled this thread " Some Thoughts on Race , Ethnicity , and Crime In the USA " but hindsight's 20/20 after all .
In light of some recent threads concerning the topic , I thought I'd fire up one of my own for the purpose of condensing my own thoughts on the matter .
So first of all I think the way data collection regarding the subject is done in this country is completely ridiculous , because it fails to take into consideration the huge class differences within a race with respect to this issue when comparing rates between different races ...
In other words were a proper study to be done , I'd bet an eighth ( or maybe even a quarter ) of my paycheck that one would find that the crime rate for lower/working class men of all races is fairly similar when compared to middle class men of all races , and so on up the line .
For example if one were to line up the white lower/working class boys and their black counterparts from my graduating year and go over their rap sheets , then you'd find that they would be much closer to each other than their middle class varieties of both racial counterparts .
Of course there would be major differences with respect to types of crime committed ( with the white boys leading the charge with respect to assault/violent crime and the black boys leading the charge with respect to drug offenses ) but said differences ( IMHO ) can be attributed to the different criminal cultural styles if you will , that exist between various races .
A topic that would take a whole different thread unto itself , yet suffice to say that certain racial/ethnic categories in this country have developed ( typically ) lower/working class criminal subcultures that exalt distinct criminal archetypes , two of which I'll be briefly fleshing out below .
One is the streetwise money making hustler , more prominent among White Ethnic ( Irish , Italian , Polish , etc. ) and Black American criminal , and the other more prominent among Old Stock ( for purposes of this discussion basically redneck ) White American and Hispanic criminals is the badass outlaw warrior .
Streetwise money making hustlers are pretty much money making oriented criminals , whereas badass outlaw warriors are pretty much action or muscle power oriented criminals , with the distinction perhaps seeming meaningless but still important as I'll describe below .
After all when one compares the Italian American Mafia ( representing White Ethnics ) and any of the sophisticated Black American drug syndicates ( like Rick Ross's organization ) to the Aryan Brotherhood or La Eme , then what are the two big differences one can immediately notice ?
One ( the Mafia and Black drug syndicates ) rules with brains/business finesse , while the other ( the AB and La Eme ) rules through fear via their propensity to dish out brutal violence .
Of course one aspect doesn't cancel the other , but the point is I highly doubt that one can dispute that LCN families and Black drug syndicates have derived much of their power from their knowledge of knowing how to game the system/play the angles , whereas the AB and La Eme have always mainly relied on the fact of inspiring sheer terror through their use of brutal violence .
These differences can be attributed to the specific cultural values the criminal subcultures from which these organizations have sprung forth from , as opposed to any intrinsic racial difference IMHO .
I could go on , but for the sake of brevity I'll continue on in my next post where I'll delve into why I think the Asian crime rate in this country is underreported and thus artificially low , as well as my thoughts on common non gang affiliated criminals of all races .
You might start by looking up just some rough crime and demographics data. Crime among various ethnic and racial groups, even when controlling for factors such as poverty, has a staggering amount of variation, especially when you start looking at violent crime. There is no doubt that the culture within different types of communities plays a big role.
Some of your hunches and beliefs are just completely wrong. Most people agree there are some deep disparities in the amount of violent crime when comparing people across racial and ethnic lines. Where people disagree is the cause and how we can help correct it.
It's hard to really get it all said in a post on CD, but this but.........
If you dump Americans all in the same pot, you'll find criminals of all races.
Some will live in areas which lends itself to violent crime, petty theft, robbery. Some work in positions which financial theft is the crime of choice.
People in high positions will commit treason and high crimes, human trafficking, pedophilia, bribery, blackmail.
Much is about a matter of whatever the potential criminal has access to and their situation. Others spend their lives diligently seeking out ways to commit crimes to further their agenda.
There is crime, and there is CRIME.
The mainstream media and politicians have spent decades portraying a specific race as looters, thugs, gang members, "super predators", Biden bill recipients, "unsocialized", "predators", "beyond the pale"....
Some people of this specific race were/are these things just as some of the people of all races are.
At one time Americans trusted the media and had no reason to disbelieve this narrative. There was no internet of people exposing the lies of the media. When you watch mainstream news you see videos of black people breaking windows, robbing, looting, yet there are citizen journalists out there whose videos of the same scene clearly show that there are whites, hispanics, asians, who are the Antifa, right there with them committing these same crimes yet no one is labeling them super predators.
This is what has created racism and dissention and therefore more crime and violence.
So, now as a nation of people, we have discovered that the motive of the mainstream media is to do this very thing, create chaos and dissention to fundamentally change America as we know it.
I am not trying to excuse anyone's violent criminal behavior, but to see our country being divided by those who don't give 2 sh*t* about any race but themselves is inexcusable.
When you watch mainstream news you see videos of black people breaking windows, robbing, looting, yet there are citizen journalists out there whose videos of the same scene clearly show that there are whites, hispanics, asians, who are the Antifa, right there with them committing these same crimes yet no one is labeling them super predators.
I think the video of looting is the video. It's not like certain video clips of looting are being suppressed that contain Asian people in it. The biggest part for me is that this rioting and looting is not denounced by community leaders more strongly and those leaders fight back against getting help to suppress the violence.
You watch mass chaos and violence being committed, and yes most of the rioting video has predominantly black people in it, with some white people as well. Most people are horrified by it, and then you turn on the news to see a local leader speak and they talk about how its within people's rights to protest and those protests don't have to be peaceful. Or that the black community is tired of whatever it is, so they get to loot and riot. Or because POC are poor, they have a right to rob stores.
This is when you start to think maybe some of us are playing on different teams here. If the news media would highlight more black leaders speaking out strongly against this kind of violence, I think it would go a long way. There are black leaders who speak out against it, but that's not who the media wants you to listen to.
You can't pretend somehow that there is widespread issues with violence and criminal activity in Asian-American communities in order to ignore problems in other communities. The data does not lie.
Another thing that I think is rarely mentioned is the issue of differences in residential patterns contributing a great deal to the disparities we see with respect to arrest and incarceration rates with respect to race ...
In other words a simple reason as to why a disproportionate amount of young Black and Hispanic males are arrested/incarcerated for drug offenses is due to the fact that a disproportionate amount of them engage in street level drug trafficking , which is simply because a disproportionate amount of them live in low income urban neighborhoods which ( due to their developmental nature ) favor the existence of street corner drug trafficking to emerge .
I mean there are plenty of low level dope pushers in poor white rural areas as well , it's just that they hardly if ever sling dope on the street , because the very physical nature of a rural/small town environment just isn't conducive to engaging in street corner drug dealing .
Street corner drug dealing is obviously much easier to detect/crack down on then the behind closed doors type which is very prevalent in many poor rural white areas , which is a major reason as to why a relatively greater number of Black and Hispanic males end up being arrested/incarcerated due to these offenses compared to their White counterparts .
Another factor which really doesn't get mentioned/is important to point out , is that it's much easier for criminals in rural areas to have a corrupt relationship with local law enforcement and politicians than it is for their urban counterparts , which naturally results in less rural criminals ( who are more likely to be white ) being picked up than their Black and Hispanic counterparts .
The reasons as to why are quite multifaceted , but suffice to say that the fact that local law enforcement officials/politicians in rural areas are more likely to live close to/personally know the criminals active in their communities , plus the fact that they are much more likely to earn a lot less money than their urban counterparts makes it all the much easier for rural White redneck criminals to have the local sheriff and county commissioner in their pocket compared to their urban Black and Hispanic counterparts .
Another important issue is that of the ability for ( particularly more organized ) rural White criminals to control the local electorate , that is if ( f.ex ) the local sheriff starts cracking down on their rackets then they can simply mobilize their entire network of extended family/friends to vote against the sheriff in the next election , which is a great deal of power since a few hundred or especially thousand votes against you can easily cost you the election in a rural setting .
Power of that sort is rare in many ( if not most ) modern big cities due to the decline of machine politics as well as the fact that big cities often tend to be way too diverse for any organized criminal group to be able to control the electorate in that way .
Last edited by Lionel Fauquier; 11-19-2020 at 04:34 PM..
You might start by looking up just some rough crime and demographics data. Crime among various ethnic and racial groups, even when controlling for factors such as poverty, has a staggering amount of variation, especially when you start looking at violent crime. There is no doubt that the culture within different types of communities plays a big role.
Some of your hunches and beliefs are just completely wrong. Most people agree there are some deep disparities in the amount of violent crime when comparing people across racial and ethnic lines. Where people disagree is the cause and how we can help correct it.
May I ask which of my hunches/beliefs do you think are wrong ?
Because I'm truly interested in reading your elaboration of that statement .
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) of my paycheck that one would find that the crime rate for lower/working class men of all races is fairly similar when compared to middle class men of all races , and so on up the line . 
Pretty sure,of yourself