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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
I agree with not mandating the vaccine. Biologically, it's probably more important that third world countries get it right now. WHO is right about that. These are new vaccines. There is always uncertainty about unexpected serious adverse impacts when a new drug is introduced into the larger population. Even after years of study. Because we humans are not copycats of one another. Certain vaccines may well be immunogenic with a propensity to cause inflammation. People have a right to make their individual health decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clutchcargo777
I hope you don't mean what that sounds like. Yikes.
Your bold of my text. On no!!! There are two separate points within a unconnected string that relate only to the topic sentence. At first I was confused why you'd bolded them together. It's:
(1) More important the Third World get next crack at the vaccines since they by-and-large have minimal protection, and the First World already had an initial round (exceptions for the elderly and immunocompromised). Also (biologically) mutations may be more likely to arise in a mass infection scenario that now is more likely to occur elsewhere.
(2) Then - next thought -I understand why many in First World countries choose to wait. Even though the vaccines were trialed in 20,000+, there are often unexpected rare events like the unusual blood clots that don't show up until the vaccines are made available to the larger population, which for the US has been 200 million or so.
The two thoughts connect in that: If some folks don't wish use the doses here in the U.S. then there is major demand elsewhere where they certainly won't go to waste - and biologically we are one big world. All the more reason not to mandate their use here.
Not, of course, that the U.S. trial the vaccines on the third-world so more side effects can be uncovered there.
What are the corresponding numbers fro those recovered from covid with natural immunity? If you can't find those numbers, are you not wondering why?
I responded with 100%, then you got back to me asking if I'd understood your question correctly? Well perhaps not exactly??? since those recovered from covid rarely become re-infected with symptoms, at least with the variants that have circulated widely here etc.
Probably still missing something, but it's late. We have just agreed that natural immunity is not well covered or counted in the United States, so perhaps that's the point. A reprise?
Last edited by EveryLady; 08-10-2021 at 12:42 AM..
Both. The clinical trials for Moderna and Pfizer started in summer/fall 2020. Delta was first detected in December 2020 but did not become widespread until many months later. Then in the spring of this year the vaccines became available in the Western world while the Delta variant was starting to dominate in India and caused a massive surge there. The vast majority of the Indian population was still not vaccinated, not because they did not want the vaccine, but because of limited availability.
So...let's have a real discussion instead of single paragraphs or one line drive bys.
You know how every year, there is a different flu variant, and the shots only work about 40-60% of the time? Guess what happens? Every year, people get the flu. Every year, millions across the world die from the flu. Every. Single. Year.
Do you know how variants are made? Allow Johns Hopkins to teach you:
I wonder how many of you vax pushers were 'vaccinated' in December 2020, before the new variant arrived.
Did the media talk about that one, or all of the others, non stop, every hour, at the top of the hour? Don't recall anyone carrying on about them back then. Who was at fault for thpse happening, despite the fact that variants happen, no matter if people get vaxxed or not....so, to the one who said it's the 'unvaccinated fault for the variants', please, go back to school.
Did you know, that in different parts of the world, there are all kinds of different variants?
Which 'vaccine' did you get? The one for the first variant, the variant in December 2020, or the variant of today?
Every year, the flu shot is for a different variant. Was your Covid shot for the right variant?
And by the way, did you know that Pfizer tells you that you can't 'mix' their vaccines with another? So, let's say you got Pfizer the first time, but the second jab, you got Moderna. Guess what? You didn't follow their instructions, which means....maybe you aren't as 'protected' as you think you are. I've seen people on this very forum talking about how they got their first jab from one maker, and their second jab from another. Johnson and Johnson don't seem to care if you mix theirs, and I didn't take the time to read what Moderna said, but if you got Pfizer for your first or second dose...and possibly their 'booster' shots...well....tsk. Are you really doing anything 'beneficial'?
And, still no one will answer my question: Does anyone have any evidence that they have isolated any of these viruses? How about just the first one? Was there an isolated specimen from a human before they created the jabs?
I can give you the answer, since no one I've asked will answer.
They created 'vaccines' without ever isolating the virus.
What do you have? What is it that you're putting in your body? It's not based on the virus. It's essentially a cocktail that someone decided 'was like the virus', but it's NOT the virus, as it has NOT been isolated.
Which raises another question: If you haven't isolated it...how do you know it even exists?
Anyway, back to the topic:
So what, exactly, IS your goal? Because this can go on as long as people want to use this for gain and power. We can just keep coming up with new variants. You'll have to lock down every winter. Slap your masks back on your face despite your vaccinations, you'll have to get new jabs every single year, and just like the flu shot, you will never be 100% protected, and you will always have the possibility of passing it on to others...
...ESPECIALLY if you had the vaccine since it CAN reduce mild symptoms, which means you could be walking around, thinking you're doing your part by being vaxxed, get Covid any damn way, not know it thanks to the milder mild symptoms, and spread that all over the place when you go out for a day of shopping on Saturday. Maybe you'll sit in a restaurant with your friend, spewing droplets out of your mouth every time you speak. Oh, wait, sorry, Covid doesn't happen when you're sitting down in a restaurant, only when you're walking through the restaurant.
Just because you are vaxxed doesn't mean you can't spread it:
There will be no end to this. It will continue as long as the people continue to live in fear.
As a reminder:
0-19 years old - 99.997% survival rate
20-49 years old - 99.98% survival rate
50-69 years old - 99.5% survival rate
70+ years - 94.6% survival rate
What are the 'side effects' of Covid?
Flu like symptoms? Mild fever? In worst cases, difficulty breathing, possibly death - especially when you won't allow hospitals to administer treatment that DOES work, and instead practically drown people with a drug that was too dangerous to be approved for ANY viral infection, but yet pushed on everyone by Gain of Function Fauci - no wonder so many died in the beginning.
What are the side effects of the 'vaccine'? Too many to list here, but we all know.
Most of us have an over 99% survival rate of Covid without doing a thing. And most of us know that we can prevent the likelihood of even getting it by getting essential vitamins and minerals, and living at least somewhat healthy. And if we do happen to get it, we can get treatment that doesn't cause all kinds of crazy sht to happen to us.
With the 'vaccine'? You may be fine. You may not. A LOT of people were just like all the others who took the vax. They trusted that they would be okay. But now? Now we have over 11,000 dead from the vaccine (at least being reported, who knows the real number), and we have a crap ton of people with all kinds of horrid side effects.
You're asking me to play Russian Roulette with my life for your goal, yet your agreed upon strategy isn't working. The masks didn't work. The 'vaccine' isn't preventing spread, and 'may' prevent Covid, not 'will' prevent Covid.
WHAT IS your goal?
The CDC also said, in their 'final update' about this, that the fatality rate is 0.26%, not 1. whatever people are saying.
But, let's all panic and freak out and get angry at those who will not get the 'vaccine'. Let's pretend it's all their fault that we can't have nice things.
Speaking of which, weren't we told that we could 'get back to normal' if only everyone would get the 'vaccine'?
Huh. Do you think it's normal that so many small businesses went out of business? Is that 'getting back to normal'? How about all of those people sitting at home, collecting free money and not paying their rent? Is that 'getting back to normal'?
How about all of those businesses out there who can't get workers, despite the ridiculous bonuses, much higher pay, and other incentives? What do you think is going to happen to those businesses if they can't get people to work there? They're giving insanely high pay for typical minimum wage jobs. All the screaming for $15+ an hour? It's out there. There's MILLIONS of unfulfilled jobs, despite the higher pay the left was carrying on about. Is that 'getting back to normal'?
And yet, even with the higher pay, even with the bonuses and incentives, the businesses can not find people to work.
I wonder why that is.
Hmmmmmmmm.
Maybe, JUST maybe, it's because those out there who keep braying that the 'anti vaxxers are ruining everything' don't realize that they, themselves, are a HUGE part of the problem.
See, a lot of people don't want to wear a mask all day at work. A lot of people don't want to be forced to get a 'vaccine' in order to work. So. They won't. And no, it's not a 'left vs right' thing. It's all kinds of people. There are black people, Indian people, Latin people who told the FDA, back in October 2020, what their concerns were. In case you missed that, here it is:
If you don't have 8+ hours to watch the whole thing, go to the following link, scroll towards the bottom of the page, until you see the table of 'Event Materials'. Click the links. Read the slides that were presented. (Treat: You'll find out that the FDA knew all about the 'adverse' effects long before they told the general public. Isn't that neat?)
But, at the same time, people keep weeping for these 'poor souls' and want the government to keep giving them free money, and want to allow them to continue not paying rent.
What do you think is going to happen to our economy? We're already heading for a crash. What do you think will happen when you walk into a store, and there's nothing to buy because no one will work?
I'd love to be getting some free money. I'd love to sit on my behind all day, gaming, debating you all, watching videos, not having to pay rent. The hell - why would anyone want to work when they can get it all for free? Consequences schmonsequences - who cares, amiright?
Is that your goal? Because that is where this is heading. The media is already talking about it. It's not something I just made up. Even the bias, left leaning media is pointing it out, and stating that we are in some trouble.
Is this your goal?
Also, did you know that the immune system that we all come with is far, far better at fighting off viruses, infections, etc if we treat it correctly? Did you know that if you eat even relatively healthy, get some exercise, GET OUTSIDE instead of being locked up in your home, your immune system will do far better than some made up cocktail shoved into a syringe to be shot into your arm?
You don't even have to take supplements. Just eat the right foods. Find out what vitamins and minerals your body needs. Find out how much. Find the foods that have those vitamins and minerals. Make a menu. You won't get bored, there's a lot to choose from. Go walk your dog, or your cat outside, in the sun and the fresh air. Be out there for a few hours...get that Vitamin D, soak it up.
OR...we can sit here and argue about who is killing who, keep being told to put cloth over our faces, (which is showing to be very psychologically damaging to children), keep panicking when someone doesn't stand directly on the sticker on the floor in the store, keep getting locked down, (which is showing to be very psychologically damaging to children), and let's keep destroying the economy by trying to force everyone into getting the jab in order to work.
Brilliant plan.
Your shot 'may' prevent Covid. All of them say the same thing:
We were told we 'needed' to lock down EVERYONE, not just the high risk. We were told it was for 2 weeks.
That was a lie.
And at no time in history have we ever quarantined healthy people - so telling us that we 'all needed' to do this, was also a lie.
Eventually, we were allowed to stick our heads back outside, but damnit, you put something over your face!
Did you know that the CDC and the NIH paid for 2 studies about masks? And when the studies didn't say what they wanted them to say, they completely ignored them and told you all more lies?
I'll bet you didn't know that. The masks people were wearing don't work. They were not the right masks, they were not sanitary about the masks, they were not wearing them properly. And, the 'virus' could get right through the dumb things.
Then, we were told that the 'vaccines' were safe. I'm sure the 11,000 + who died don't agree with that. I'm going to bet the thousands who had terrible side effects don't believe that.
But, we were told that if people got 'vaccinated', we could return to normal. So, many of you went out there, got your jabs, and waited.
And then what happened?
You were lied to YET again.
You're not going to get to 'go back to normal'. Why? Well, there's a new variant! Isn't that convenient? There were 'new variants' all along, but this one? Oh, no, this is one is FAR more dangerous than all of the other variants that you NEVER HEARD ABOUT (because it wasn't convenient timing).
Now? You have to wear a mask again, DESPITE you being 'vaccinated'.
We may have lock downs again, DESPITE you being 'vaccinated'.
You're not going 'back to normal'.
So, we can keep playing this game for eternity, or we can say, 'you know what? I'm a normal, healthy person, and I've had enough of the lies and false promises. You don't keep healthy people in. You take care of those who are at high risk, you leave everyone else the HELL ALONE!
Until the majority gets to that point, this is your life. Your goal will never be met.
Don't ask me to take an experiment, spinning the wheel and hoping I'm not one of those who dies a week later, (My God, the stress! That alone is a killer). when we have been lied to over and over again.
They will continue to find reasons to tell you what to do, and the reason for that is because you let them.
You want this gone? Stop trusting your government. They do not have your best interest at heart, and for the most part, the majority of them are complete imbeciles. They don't have a clue what they're doing.
Even people who survive COVID-19 often end up with long-term symptoms lasting months. Estimates I've seen range from 10-30% of all cases. With the vaccine, the percentage of people with debilitating side-effects lasting months is astronomically small. Why should anyone in their right mind take a 10% chance of disability instead of a < 0.1% chance?
Even people who survive COVID-19 often end up with long-term symptoms lasting months. Estimates I've seen range from 10-30% of all cases. With the vaccine, the percentage of people with debilitating side-effects lasting months is astronomically small. Why should anyone in their right mind take a 10% chance of disability instead of a < 0.1% chance?
Unfortunately, this is the same tired, specious argument that has been made over and over. It wasn't effective before and it's not effective now. And that's because both sides of the equation are statistically insignificant. Most people are not going to care if the chance of catching one thing is 2 in 10,000 or 2 in 100,000. The likelihood of either is miniscule. Trying to use percentages to hide that is disingenuous.
So...let's have a real discussion instead of single paragraphs or one line drive bys.
You know how every year, there is a different flu variant, and the shots only work about 40-60% of the time? Guess what happens? Every year, people get the flu. Every year, millions across the world die from the flu. Every. Single. Year.
Do you know how variants are made? Allow Johns Hopkins to teach you:
I wonder how many of you vax pushers were 'vaccinated' in December 2020, before the new variant arrived.
Did the media talk about that one, or all of the others, non stop, every hour, at the top of the hour? Don't recall anyone carrying on about them back then. Who was at fault for thpse happening, despite the fact that variants happen, no matter if people get vaxxed or not....so, to the one who said it's the 'unvaccinated fault for the variants', please, go back to school.
Did you know, that in different parts of the world, there are all kinds of different variants?
Which 'vaccine' did you get? The one for the first variant, the variant in December 2020, or the variant of today?
Every year, the flu shot is for a different variant. Was your Covid shot for the right variant?
And by the way, did you know that Pfizer tells you that you can't 'mix' their vaccines with another? So, let's say you got Pfizer the first time, but the second jab, you got Moderna. Guess what? You didn't follow their instructions, which means....maybe you aren't as 'protected' as you think you are. I've seen people on this very forum talking about how they got their first jab from one maker, and their second jab from another. Johnson and Johnson don't seem to care if you mix theirs, and I didn't take the time to read what Moderna said, but if you got Pfizer for your first or second dose...and possibly their 'booster' shots...well....tsk. Are you really doing anything 'beneficial'?
And, still no one will answer my question: Does anyone have any evidence that they have isolated any of these viruses? How about just the first one? Was there an isolated specimen from a human before they created the jabs?
I can give you the answer, since no one I've asked will answer.
They created 'vaccines' without ever isolating the virus.
What do you have? What is it that you're putting in your body? It's not based on the virus. It's essentially a cocktail that someone decided 'was like the virus', but it's NOT the virus, as it has NOT been isolated.
Which raises another question: If you haven't isolated it...how do you know it even exists?
Anyway, back to the topic:
So what, exactly, IS your goal? Because this can go on as long as people want to use this for gain and power. We can just keep coming up with new variants. You'll have to lock down every winter. Slap your masks back on your face despite your vaccinations, you'll have to get new jabs every single year, and just like the flu shot, you will never be 100% protected, and you will always have the possibility of passing it on to others...
...ESPECIALLY if you had the vaccine since it CAN reduce mild symptoms, which means you could be walking around, thinking you're doing your part by being vaxxed, get Covid any damn way, not know it thanks to the milder mild symptoms, and spread that all over the place when you go out for a day of shopping on Saturday. Maybe you'll sit in a restaurant with your friend, spewing droplets out of your mouth every time you speak. Oh, wait, sorry, Covid doesn't happen when you're sitting down in a restaurant, only when you're walking through the restaurant.
Just because you are vaxxed doesn't mean you can't spread it:
There will be no end to this. It will continue as long as the people continue to live in fear.
As a reminder:
0-19 years old - 99.997% survival rate
20-49 years old - 99.98% survival rate
50-69 years old - 99.5% survival rate
70+ years - 94.6% survival rate
What are the 'side effects' of Covid?
Flu like symptoms? Mild fever? In worst cases, difficulty breathing, possibly death - especially when you won't allow hospitals to administer treatment that DOES work, and instead practically drown people with a drug that was too dangerous to be approved for ANY viral infection, but yet pushed on everyone by Gain of Function Fauci - no wonder so many died in the beginning.
What are the side effects of the 'vaccine'? Too many to list here, but we all know.
Most of us have an over 99% survival rate of Covid without doing a thing. And most of us know that we can prevent the likelihood of even getting it by getting essential vitamins and minerals, and living at least somewhat healthy. And if we do happen to get it, we can get treatment that doesn't cause all kinds of crazy sht to happen to us.
With the 'vaccine'? You may be fine. You may not. A LOT of people were just like all the others who took the vax. They trusted that they would be okay. But now? Now we have over 11,000 dead from the vaccine (at least being reported, who knows the real number), and we have a crap ton of people with all kinds of horrid side effects.
You're asking me to play Russian Roulette with my life for your goal, yet your agreed upon strategy isn't working. The masks didn't work. The 'vaccine' isn't preventing spread, and 'may' prevent Covid, not 'will' prevent Covid.
WHAT IS your goal?
The CDC also said, in their 'final update' about this, that the fatality rate is 0.26%, not 1. whatever people are saying.
But, let's all panic and freak out and get angry at those who will not get the 'vaccine'. Let's pretend it's all their fault that we can't have nice things.
Speaking of which, weren't we told that we could 'get back to normal' if only everyone would get the 'vaccine'?
Huh. Do you think it's normal that so many small businesses went out of business? Is that 'getting back to normal'? How about all of those people sitting at home, collecting free money and not paying their rent? Is that 'getting back to normal'?
How about all of those businesses out there who can't get workers, despite the ridiculous bonuses, much higher pay, and other incentives? What do you think is going to happen to those businesses if they can't get people to work there? They're giving insanely high pay for typical minimum wage jobs. All the screaming for $15+ an hour? It's out there. There's MILLIONS of unfulfilled jobs, despite the higher pay the left was carrying on about. Is that 'getting back to normal'?
And yet, even with the higher pay, even with the bonuses and incentives, the businesses can not find people to work.
I wonder why that is.
Hmmmmmmmm.
Maybe, JUST maybe, it's because those out there who keep braying that the 'anti vaxxers are ruining everything' don't realize that they, themselves, are a HUGE part of the problem.
See, a lot of people don't want to wear a mask all day at work. A lot of people don't want to be forced to get a 'vaccine' in order to work. So. They won't. And no, it's not a 'left vs right' thing. It's all kinds of people. There are black people, Indian people, Latin people who told the FDA, back in October 2020, what their concerns were. In case you missed that, here it is:
If you don't have 8+ hours to watch the whole thing, go to the following link, scroll towards the bottom of the page, until you see the table of 'Event Materials'. Click the links. Read the slides that were presented. (Treat: You'll find out that the FDA knew all about the 'adverse' effects long before they told the general public. Isn't that neat?)
But, at the same time, people keep weeping for these 'poor souls' and want the government to keep giving them free money, and want to allow them to continue not paying rent.
What do you think is going to happen to our economy? We're already heading for a crash. What do you think will happen when you walk into a store, and there's nothing to buy because no one will work?
I'd love to be getting some free money. I'd love to sit on my behind all day, gaming, debating you all, watching videos, not having to pay rent. The hell - why would anyone want to work when they can get it all for free? Consequences schmonsequences - who cares, amiright?
Is that your goal? Because that is where this is heading. The media is already talking about it. It's not something I just made up. Even the bias, left leaning media is pointing it out, and stating that we are in some trouble.
Is this your goal?
Also, did you know that the immune system that we all come with is far, far better at fighting off viruses, infections, etc if we treat it correctly? Did you know that if you eat even relatively healthy, get some exercise, GET OUTSIDE instead of being locked up in your home, your immune system will do far better than some made up cocktail shoved into a syringe to be shot into your arm?
You don't even have to take supplements. Just eat the right foods. Find out what vitamins and minerals your body needs. Find out how much. Find the foods that have those vitamins and minerals. Make a menu. You won't get bored, there's a lot to choose from. Go walk your dog, or your cat outside, in the sun and the fresh air. Be out there for a few hours...get that Vitamin D, soak it up.
OR...we can sit here and argue about who is killing who, keep being told to put cloth over our faces, (which is showing to be very psychologically damaging to children), keep panicking when someone doesn't stand directly on the sticker on the floor in the store, keep getting locked down, (which is showing to be very psychologically damaging to children), and let's keep destroying the economy by trying to force everyone into getting the jab in order to work.
Brilliant plan.
Your shot 'may' prevent Covid. All of them say the same thing:
We were told we 'needed' to lock down EVERYONE, not just the high risk. We were told it was for 2 weeks.
That was a lie.
And at no time in history have we ever quarantined healthy people - so telling us that we 'all needed' to do this, was also a lie.
Eventually, we were allowed to stick our heads back outside, but damnit, you put something over your face!
Did you know that the CDC and the NIH paid for 2 studies about masks? And when the studies didn't say what they wanted them to say, they completely ignored them and told you all more lies?
I'll bet you didn't know that. The masks people were wearing don't work. They were not the right masks, they were not sanitary about the masks, they were not wearing them properly. And, the 'virus' could get right through the dumb things.
Then, we were told that the 'vaccines' were safe. I'm sure the 11,000 + who died don't agree with that. I'm going to bet the thousands who had terrible side effects don't believe that.
But, we were told that if people got 'vaccinated', we could return to normal. So, many of you went out there, got your jabs, and waited.
And then what happened?
You were lied to YET again.
You're not going to get to 'go back to normal'. Why? Well, there's a new variant! Isn't that convenient? There were 'new variants' all along, but this one? Oh, no, this is one is FAR more dangerous than all of the other variants that you NEVER HEARD ABOUT (because it wasn't convenient timing).
Now? You have to wear a mask again, DESPITE you being 'vaccinated'.
We may have lock downs again, DESPITE you being 'vaccinated'.
You're not going 'back to normal'.
So, we can keep playing this game for eternity, or we can say, 'you know what? I'm a normal, healthy person, and I've had enough of the lies and false promises. You don't keep healthy people in. You take care of those who are at high risk, you leave everyone else the HELL ALONE!
Until the majority gets to that point, this is your life. Your goal will never be met.
Don't ask me to take an experiment, spinning the wheel and hoping I'm not one of those who dies a week later, (My God, the stress! That alone is a killer). when we have been lied to over and over again.
They will continue to find reasons to tell you what to do, and the reason for that is because you let them.
You want this gone? Stop trusting your government. They do not have your best interest at heart, and for the most part, the majority of them are complete imbeciles. They don't have a clue what they're doing.
Fantastic post that summarizes exactly what a lot of us have said for months.
I don't see how some can argue against this thought train. But of course, they still do because they are told the same thing, day after day, by the media. And, people are scared. And scared does not equal rational.
Fantastic post that summarizes exactly what a lot of us have said for months.
I don't see how some can argue against this thought train. But of course, they still do because they are told the same thing, day after day, by the media. And, people are scared. And scared does not equal rational.
Is it a lie that the vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated?
Maybe this is the avenue we need to go, private businesses forcing you to show vaccination proof as a condition to work there.
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