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Slavery was created by governments because they needed labor. A slave is someone who is forced to labor by threat of the whip. A serf is someone who is forced to labor by threat of starvation. A wage-laborer is forced to labor by threat of homelessness, starvation, and social-ostracization.
Governments can only exist by forcing people to support them. The only difference between one society and another, is the means by which people are forced.
The supposition is that slavery never really ended, since no government could exist without the forced labor of the masses. Rather that chattel slavery and serfdom were abolished because a more profitable slavery was developed. Capitalism.
Furthermore, government is not voluntary. And the fact that we can choose our rulers doesn't make us free. None of us really own anything, not land, nothing. We rent it from the government, who will confiscate it if we don't pay them whatever they demand.
Thus through political and social institutions we are reduced at minimum to a kind of servitude, if not serfdom. But whether servitude, serfdom, and slavery are different in their specifics, their purpose is exactly the same. And the reason the government enforced slavery was because the state needed the proceeds from the labor.
In any case, no one is being dismissive of slavery. They just define it more broadly than you do. For instance, many people say that North Korea is a slave state. Ronald Reagan said that Soviet Communism was slavery. And Frederick Douglass, an actual slave, said that socialism is slavery of all to all.
This is just ideology, and only as true as you decide it to be.
Wage labour isn't the only solution to being homeless, and social ostracization isn't what kept slaves from deciding they were ready for some time out .... this whole everyone is a slave nonsense, is so dismissive of actual slaves, serfs etc.
It does get old but you still cling onto the slavery.
I donot. You brought up “ are they your slaves” part. Not everyone gets lucky as you to come fromchina and me ck poor americans and questionwhy you have to pay for thier welfare.
My concerns if solved would helpmillions, but yours? Willonly saveyou a few 1000s off your paycheck.
Wage labour isn't the only solution to being homeless, and social ostracization isn't what kept slaves from deciding they were ready for some time out .... this whole everyone is a slave nonsense, is so dismissive of actual slaves, serfs etc.
It's almost like you lack reading comprehension. Let me repeat what I said.
Quote:
"Slavery was created by governments because they needed labor. A slave is someone who is forced to labor by threat of the whip. A serf is someone who is forced to labor by threat of starvation. A wage-laborer is forced to labor by threat of homelessness, starvation, and social-ostracization.
Whether servitude, serfdom, and slavery are different in their specifics, their purpose is exactly the same. The supposition then is that slavery never really ended, since no government could exist without the forced labor of the masses. Rather that chattel slavery and serfdom were abolished because a more profitable slavery was developed. Capitalism.
Governments can only exist by forcing people to support them. The only difference between one society and another is the means by which people are forced."
Have you ever wondered why slavery ended all over the world, in most cases long before it did in America, in countries that were not democratic? Have you ever wondered why the British Empire used its Navy to stop the slave-trade?
The same year the American Civil War began, the Russian Czar abolished serfdom. Why?
Slavery and serfdom are inferior economic models which only have a place in high-labor, low-skilled agricultural work. Capitalism doesn't only require producers, it requires consumers. The wealth of capitalism comes from labor specialization, as well as from high-efficiency, labor-saving machines. Slavery was abolished because it was incompatible with industrialization, and those countries with technological advantages further wanted slavery to end because it increased their advantage.
Slavery kept not only the slaves impoverished, but also their masters. Southern planters were much poorer than northern businessmen, industrialists, and bankers. The entire southern half of the United States was a veritable third-world country(and would still be if they had seceded).
The only thing that sustained slavery in the United States was a need for a favorable balance of trade with Europe which would subsidize Northern industry. Once American industry caught up with European industry, slavery became a strategic geopolitical liability. Our balance of trade was much better served by selling high-value manufactured goods, and our internal economy benefited from more consumers and the increasing industrialization of the south.
Let me then end where I began, "chattel slavery and serfdom were abolished because a more profitable slavery was developed. Capitalism."
It's almost like you lack reading comprehension. Let me repeat what I said.
Have you ever wondered why slavery ended all over the world, in most cases long before it did in America, in countries that were not democratic? Have you ever wondered why the British Empire used its Navy to stop the slave-trade?
The same year the American Civil War began, the Russian Czar abolished serfdom. Why?
Slavery and serfdom are inferior economic models which only have a place in high-labor, low-skilled agricultural work. Capitalism doesn't only require producers, it requires consumers. The wealth of capitalism comes from labor specialization, as well as from high-efficiency, labor-saving machines. Slavery was abolished because it was incompatible with industrialization, and those countries with technological advantages further wanted slavery to end because it increased their advantage.
Slavery kept not only the slaves impoverished, but also their masters. Southern planters were much poorer than northern businessmen, industrialists, and bankers. The entire southern half of the United States was a veritable third-world country(and would still be if they had seceded).
The only thing that sustained slavery in the United States was a need for a favorable balance of trade with Europe which would subsidize Northern industry. Once American industry caught up with European industry, slavery became a strategic geopolitical liability. Our balance of trade was much better served by selling high-value manufactured goods, and our internal economy benefited from more consumers and the increasing industrialization of the south.
Let me then end where I began, "chattel slavery and serfdom were abolished because a more profitable slavery was developed. Capitalism."
This actually does nothing to put Spooner's quote into context.
I donot. You brought up “ are they your slaves” part. Not everyone gets lucky as you to come fromchina and me ck poor americans and questionwhy you have to pay for thier welfare.
My concerns if solved would helpmillions, but yours? Willonly saveyou a few 1000s off your paycheck.
If you don’t think people are your slaves, why do you want to force them to do what you want them to do?
It’s not every idea you have hasn’t been tried and failed countless times.
Why? Because your ideas are immoral and downright evil. No immoral idea can work in the real world.
Something that can't be shown to be either right or wrong, is how I define ideology.
What he said was objectively true. And you know it's true.
Where ideology comes in is how we interpret and apply that truth. Basically, why is he saying that? And what should we take from it?
He never specifically mentions democracy, or capitalism, or America. But we all know what he was saying, that having a right to vote(IE democracy) doesn't stop you from being a slave. Though what he really means is that we're all slaves.
Now, you took offense to this because you think he was trying to equate wage-labor with chattel slavery. Obviously they're not the same thing. And you believe that by calling them the same thing, we're being dismissive about the evils of the more severe forms of slavery.
But did he do that? Was that his intention? Or was he just using the word slavery to make a point, because in all actuality that is the most appropriate word to use.
After your first comment I decided to read through a few of your posts. In between your talks about the weather, you sure like complaining about slavery. And then you come here and annoy me by completely misrepresenting what I said, and what Spooner said, and then making disparaging remarks. Why?
And what did I say that I can't prove?
Last edited by Redshadowz; 12-25-2020 at 07:31 PM..
If you don’t think people are your slaves, why do you want to force them to do what you want them to do?
It’s not every idea you have hasn’t been tried and failed countless times.
Why? Because your ideas are immoral and downright evil. No immoral idea can work in the real world.
Before you chinese took away the manufacturing, people here were able to save, buy houses, pay fir others welfare without conplaining.
Anyway you wouldnt understand.
Enjoy your new found wealth and freedom.
Before calling others evil, this is a deja vu thread with redshadows me and you. As usual you preaching about saving your yuans and dollars for ur self.
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