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For some of us, our true Independence Day is not 4th of July. My people were slaves and would remain slaves until 1865.
As a Black person in America, this is how I see things. 1965-Now is the most free Black people have ever been.
Your people are the American people. All of us. The USA is a melting pot after all.
There's a lot of people who were victimized in the past. I'm sure you know what happened to the Jews throughout history. Look at them today. They have a great deal of wealth and influence. The American indians were not treated well. Some were taken as slaves, but they very often died prematurely. The Irish were not treated too well here when they first came. They were sometimes made to work in ways and conditions that people would not accept today. People were very distrusting of the Germans when they came in large numbers.
I am 50% Polish, and I know the history. We were made fun of in America. But that's nothing compared to the way they were treated in Europe. Poland used to be one of the most wealthy countries in Europe with one of the largest populations of Jews. That was in the past. The legacy was destroyed by their neighboring nations, who pillaged their wealth time and time again, and exterminated their population in significant numbers.
It's good to know the history and learn from mistakes of the past, so we do not repeat them, but we are living in the present. We determine our own fate in this nation today. Far more so than in other places I believe. Do you believe African Americans would be doing any better today if they lived in Africa? It's good to know history, but some things are better left in the past.
As a Black person in America, this is how I see things. 1965-Now is the most free Black people have ever been.
Agreed! -- but the real achieivement in those times was the advancement of better-assimilated black and Hispanic people toward better-paid positions in both the public and private sectors -- the latter often with "Jim Crow" labor unions in the blue-collar trades opposing that process.
Your people are the American people. All of us. The USA is a melting pot after all.
There's a lot of people who were victimized in the past. I'm sure you know what happened to the Jews throughout history. Look at them today. They have a great deal of wealth and influence. The American indians were not treated well. Some were taken as slaves, but they very often died prematurely. The Irish were not treated too well here when they first came. They were sometimes made to work in ways and conditions that people would not accept today. People were very distrusting of the Germans when they came in large numbers.
I am 50% Polish, and I know the history. We were made fun of in America. But that's nothing compared to the way they were treated in Europe. Poland used to be one of the most wealthy countries in Europe with one of the largest populations of Jews. That was in the past. The legacy was destroyed by their neighboring nations, who pillaged their wealth time and time again, and exterminated their population in significant numbers.
It's good to know the history and learn from mistakes of the past, so we do not repeat them, but we are living in the present. We determine our own fate in this nation today. Far more so than in other places I believe. Do you believe African Americans would be doing any better today if they lived in Africa? It's good to know history, but some things are better left in the past.
In regards to the poster you are replying to....."his" people? You're correct Americans of all races should be regarded as "his" people instead he is race focused. These are the types of individuals with a tribal mentality that are dividing us today along with living in the past. I have nothing but contempt for those types of people.
Your people are the American people. All of us. The USA is a melting pot after all.
There's a lot of people who were victimized in the past. I'm sure you know what happened to the Jews throughout history. Look at them today. They have a great deal of wealth and influence. The American indians were not treated well. Some were taken as slaves, but they very often died prematurely. The Irish were not treated to well here when they came. People were very distrusting of the Germans when they came in large numbers.
I am 50% Polish, and I know the history. We were made fun of in America. But that's nothing compared to the way they were treated in Europe. Poland used to be one of the most wealthy countries in Europe with one of the largest populations of Jews. That was in the past. The legacy was destroyed by their neighboring nations, who pillaged their wealth time and time again, and exterminated their population in significant numbers.
It's good to know the history and learn from mistakes of the best, so we do not repeat them, but we are living in the present. We determine our own fate in this nation today. Far more so than in other places. Do you believe African Americans would be doing any better today if they lived in Africa? It's good to know history, but some things are better left in the past.
Well said. History is largely the story of human aggression and conflict. Throughout history we have spilled blood and abused our brothers. That is the ugly truth. All nations are built on conquest and the abuse of the people who came before. The UK over the past 2000 years has seen Romans take the land from celts, Anglo Saxons take it from Romano Britain’s, Vikings and Norman’s take it from Anglo Saxons etc. Each group abused and brutalized the previous. We can look at the history of Europe, China and the near East and see the same thing. Slavery???? Existed everywhere and in Africa it still exists.
Our Latin American friends have a similar history to us. They were colonies of Europe like we were. African slaves were tied to their economy like they were here. They revolted like we did. They were led to victory by Simon Bolivar just as we were led to victory by George Washington. Our culture and language is different but our path to nationhood took similar paths. They struggled with slavery as we did and ended it in the 19th century as we did. What we don’t here about however is endless race discussions in those nations, endless blaming of those nations white populations. They have moved on.
Why must so many Americans both black and white (left wingers) constantly bring this up? Do I feel guilt for our history? no I do not. Will beating me over the head with all this blame make me feel guilt? No it won’t. Do I believe that slavery is responsible for the living conditions some find themselves in today? Absolutely not....slavery has been gone for 155 years. Socialism and entitlement allows people to live in those conditions not a dead institution from a century and a half ago. For those who want to “wave the bloody shirt”.....how long do white people need to be punished? How long should this be waved in our faces? Another 100 years? 200? 500? How long? All of this is doing long term damage to race relations. There are two possible responses to this from white people, one is white guilt and one is anger. How one responds to it coordinates with their political leanings. Obviously this adds to the deep divisions that are tearing apart our country. Of course these divisions are about much more than this issue of race but race and identity politics is a significant part of the current schism in our nation.
In short I agree with you. We should be able to all see each other as Americans and move on. There is no white nationalist boogeyman under the bed.
Agreed! -- but the real achieivement in those times was the advancement of better-assimilated black and Hispanic people toward better-paid positions in both the public and private sectors -- the latter often with "Jim Crow" labor unions in the blue-collar trades opposing that process.
Well, someone said that you can't eat freedom. However, with freedom, you can do more with it than without it. Being able to vote, freedom to live where you want, freedom of movement. And with those freedoms would come greater opportunities.
To me, the true achievements were getting the same freedoms and rights as anyone else in America. Being able to rise in the white collar jobs is important to me. I come from a middle class, white collar family. I am a white collar person (I have done some blue collar work too). For me, the true achievements came in the years of the 1960s and after.
This is why I say Black people are more free today than they have ever been in the scope of U.S. history. This is why I don't buy into "America is over and gone" or " our freedoms are rotting away".
In regards to the poster you are replying to....."his" people? You're correct Americans of all races should be regarded as "his" people instead he is race focused. These are the types of individuals with a tribal mentality that are dividing us today along with living in the past. I have nothing but contempt for those types of people.
I don't have contempt for people with a tribal mentality. We can see ourselves any way we choose. But the fact is, if someone is born in the USA, they are a USA citizen first and foremost. Different ethnic groups prefer to stay together in various communities, at least for a couple generations. It's no different for Hispanics, Asians, or various other groups.
There are places in Michigan and Illinois that were once predominately Polish, but eventually, those people spread out and move into more diverse communities. Those formerly majority Polish communities in Illinois that I have visited now have larger Hispanic communities in their place. Hamtramck in Michigan was once majority Polish, but now it has a larger population of people of Bangladeshi and Pakistani roots. There are just as many Arabs now there as there are Poles.
When people come here from other countries, they tend to want to live with people who have the same background, speak the same language, like the same food, share the same religion, share the same life experience, etc. I think most people have this tribal mentality to some extent, and there is nothing wrong with that. It makes adjusting to the American way of life a little easier when you are among what you see as "your people".
Some people seem to be worried that we are losing our freedom and that the country is going to hell in a hand basket.
I guess it all depends on the definition of “freedom.” In some respects, there is indeed less “freedom” today than there was in 1776. Some examples:
1) We no longer have the freedom to own slaves.
2) Businesses have less freedom to suppress labor unions.
3) Businesses have less freedom to dump pollution into the environment.
4) We no longer have the freedom to lynch people.
5) State governments have less freedom to disenfranchise black voters.
6) Bosses have less freedom to bully & harass their subordinates in the workplace.
We have indeed lost many of our “freedoms.” I'll leave it to the reader to determine whether or not that’s a good thing.
The world is what you make of it. You can choose to see the good or the bad. My main concern is the democrat identity politics experiment which has a very bad odor to it.... If anything destroys the country it will it the final outcome of this experiment taken to it's full conclusion. There's a good chance within 20 years china will be able to take over the planet if it wants, at the rate things are going. Nothing lasts forever though.
If the neoliberal order pushed by Reagan and his ilk which have since become our national economic policy worked, then we wouldn't be in a position where identity politics got so much traction. I absolutely loathe identity politics and the liberal obsession with "wokeness" but the flip side is that the republicans have cemented and push their own cartoonish identity politics at the other end of the spectrum, and both of these become bedrock in places where our economic model has failed the working and middle class.
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These are the types of individuals with a tribal mentality that are dividing us today along with living in the past. I have nothing but contempt for those types of people.
