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If sprawl is inevitable how come Europe is so free of it? When i visited Germany the farms started at the last house in town and I did not see, other than few isolated farmhouses, any suburbia at all.
I think we could reduce the energy cost of sprawl with adoption of many smaller plug-in hybrid autos and more extensive mass transit using buses, little trains or full size rail.
People in Germany tend to live in mid-rise apt. buildings built right up to the sidewalk with virutally no green space around them at all. I wouldn't be crazy about living like that. I like my yard and garden.
Plug-in hybrids use electricity that has to be generated somewhere. I don't even want to get into mass transit right now.
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Originally Posted by MiamiRob
as much as I despise sprawl isn't it expensive already? You buy a house in the suburbs but what you pay for in a house doesn't the cost of having to drive everywhere cut into your budget and savings? Seriously I don't get people who drive 30, 40 or even 50+ miles to work then spend another 10 to 20 miles during errands after work. I live in a new urbanist community where all of my needs are met within a 3 mile radius from home except for governmental things ( court, hospitals, etc) or trips outside the city.
As for zoning some regulation is needed. Who would want to live next door to a chemical plant just because zoning is non existant?
Where do people get the idea that everyone in the burbs drives 30-50 miles to work every day? Many people work in their own burb or a nearby one. Most burbs function like new urbanist areas in that they have little shopping areas that provide most of their needs, e.g. groceries, dry cleaning, Target-type stores, etc.
It is none of my business what others do and how others live unless it directly impacts me.
I do not believe in zoning,regulating or restricting what others can do with their property.
I am in the distinct minority....most people LIVE to tell others what to do....
So what if someone owning some vacant lots in the nearest street from your backyard wants to put up a 5 story apartment building and in doing so will block the view of downtown on the horizon from your backyard. And a realtor thinks the apartment will cause the value of your home to go down at least 20% because a number of prospective buyers will be turned off to the idea of buying your home when they see a huge apartment complex almost in your backyard. They may be concerned about issues such as noise, bright lighting and the ability of the upper floor residents to peer into your backyard.
Under such circumstances then, do you think some governmental body should tell the land owner he can't build an apartment complex on his property? IF your answer is yes it goes to show the need for zoning laws.
So what if someone owning some vacant lots in the nearest street from your backyard wants to put up a 5 story apartment building and in doing so will block the view of downtown on the horizon from your backyard. And a realtor thinks the apartment will cause the value of your home to go down at least 20% because a number of prospective buyers will be turned off to the idea of buying your home when they see a huge apartment complex almost in your backyard. They may be concerned about issues such as noise, bright lighting and the ability of the upper floor residents to peer into your backyard.
Under such circumstances, then do you think some governmental body should tell the land owner he can't build an apartment complex on his property? IF your answer is yes it goes to show the need for zoning laws.
What you have described is Houston, Texas. Individuals may be able to do exactly what you suggested.
Yet, 3 times, the issue on enacting a zoning law was put before the voters and 3 times, the zoning proposition was rejected by a very wide margin!
Freedom only matters if your desires are obstructed. If a law you support is enacted, then it's not an infringement of your freedom. So this is really irrelevant to your opinion on the subject.
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But, like many of us, we give up certain freedoms for the good of the whole, and most of us do so willingly.
Liberty requires that we only give up as much as absolutely necessary for the stability of government and the maintenance of natural liberty. Beyond that, one group oppresses another.
Your question would be more accurately phrased "should we oppress people to advance our agenda?"
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Should we now do so when it comes to housing? Should we encourage and subsidize density and discourage and make sprawl VERY costly?
National environmental regulation to preserve future generations the ability to reclaim land, yes. However, limitations on sprawl should be left to states to decide. Farmers have been pulling rocks and stumps out of furrows for years. Pulling vinyl siding out of a field after a neighborhood has been reclaimed is no different.
Lastly, your poll is based on a false premiss: The only choice regarding sprawl is to penalize it financially or ignore it. There are more ways to curb behavior than to infringe on property (money) rights.
So what if someone owning some vacant lots in the nearest street from your backyard wants to put up a 5 story apartment building and in doing so will block the view of downtown on the horizon from your backyard. And a realtor thinks the apartment will cause the value of your home to go down at least 20% because a number of prospective buyers will be turned off to the idea of buying your home when they see a huge apartment complex almost in your backyard. They may be concerned about issues such as noise, bright lighting and the ability of the upper floor residents to peer into your backyard.
Under such circumstances then, do you think some governmental body should tell the land owner he can't build an apartment complex on his property? IF your answer is yes it goes to show the need for zoning laws.
Unless you won the land you live with what others do...
In fact we DO live with it right now.
We live in what passes for rural here in our area.
When we bought there were trees all behind us although we knew there were homes back there(trailers to be exact but couldn't be seen except in winter).
About a year or so ago in came a backhoe and out went all the trees, followed closely by some more trailers.
The one nearest to us is most likely in violation of our county codes as it is quite close to th eproperty line and there are also now empty and derelict trailers back there too.
A Realtor friend suggested we anonymously call zoning enforcement on them but we have not,instead we put up a privacy fence.
You see, in a society based upon personal freedom you do not get to dictate to your neighbor what he can do on HIS property.
If sprawl is inevitable how come Europe is so free of it? When i visited Germany the farms started at the last house in town and I did not see, other than few isolated farmhouses, any suburbia at all.
I think we could reduce the energy cost of sprawl with adoption of many smaller plug-in hybrid autos and more extensive mass transit using buses, little trains or full size rail.
Europe has tons of sprawl. Trying coming into Paris or Rome by train. It never ends...
so far, most people are only talking about the individual and their rights
does society as a whole have a right?
A right? No. Obligation? Yes. Society has the obligation to set up a system that refrains from oppression and maintains stability for future generations.
When you start talking about rights as a society beyond those things, you have to be able to answer the question "How many beneficiaries must there be from one slave's labor to make slavery moral?" The reason we need to answer that is because we know, just like Social Security has gone all wrong, that government does not do maintenance well. Democracy puts out fires but nothing else. So, people will be unnecessarily oppressed at some point. The question has to be answered "How much benefit must we get for that unlucky people's oppression?"
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