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Sorry, but your red herring deflection has nothing to do with my point.
After the Republican failure to address the problem of economic collapse and the humiliation of Hoover's do-nothing policy, the nation was a great risk of falling into extremism and even class warfare.
The election of FDR changed all of that. Sure, he was a blue blood with inherited wealth, yet he saw the need for government to take positive action to relieve the suffering of the people and protect them as much as possible from calamity. This progressive reform was a 'safety valve' which gave the working classes hope, and they did not choose to resort to violence or turn to extremist demagogues.
For his efforts, the wealthy thought of FDR as a 'traitor to his class', and this is the taproot of all Republican complaints about the man. The fact is, by making the lives of working people tolerable and hopeful the reforms of his administration strengthened and preserved capitalism and the republic, and the wealthy Republicans owed him a debt of gratitude for it.
Is that what you call it, your point?
FDR didn't end the depression, he prolonged it with bad programs after bad programs. Unemployment was at 16%. That means 84% had jobs and 84% weren't going to allow 16% to destroy this nation or burn our constitution. If the 16% would have taken the streets they would have been wiped out., FDR just used them for politics. WW 2 was what saved his behind. Only WW II, with its demands for massive war production, which created lots of jobs, ended the Depression.
We became a more dependent nation to the government and a reckless foreign policy that We had to be the police of the world. It all started with FDR. Our foreign policy which has teeth is our economy and survival. You think We spend all this money on Defense because We are bored. It's part of our economy and how FDR did to get out of the depression.
If the U.S. would have lost WW 2, his policies would have been just failed policies. WW 2 is what saved this nation, not the new deal.
So the only way to provide for your future is SS? No other way to invest, like a 401k or a retirement pension from your job?
Very few jobs still have pensions (I've never had one that did), and now, it is pretty unrealistic for a young worker to expect his present employment to last 40 years. Virtually eveery job now is the blacksmithy of 2060.
If 401(k) was legally mandated fo5 all workers, how do you think it would be better than SS?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
FDR? On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being great? -50 (negative 50). FDR's idiotic economic policies prolonged the Great Depression by at least 7 years, unnecessarily keeping tens of millions in misery.
To use an actual example, this is like saying you know for sure that if the government had let GM fail, then the companies making their parts would have simply gone over to ford since ford would have "obviously taken over the market share" since Ford survived without bailouts. They also then argue that the economy overall would have rebounded faster if we let all those companies fail.
Not of single bit of that is true. Its entirely possible we never recover in that scenario. Same with the UCLA projections.
0.
He ruined America. He started all this socialist bull crap.
Terrible terrible president.
I fundamentally agree with this.. but think a '0' is more harsh than I'd rate him, because I rank a couple presidents lower than FDR. I'd personally rate Roosevelt a 2.
Very few jobs still have pensions (I've never had one that did), and now, it is pretty unrealistic for a young worker to expect his present employment to last 40 years. Virtually eveery job now is the blacksmithy of 2060.
If 401(k) was legally mandated fo5 all workers, how do you think it would be better than SS?
individuals are responsible for their own retirement, their own financial security, not govt, not employers.
This is a point that seems entirely lost on you
I fundamentally agree with this.. but think a '0' is more harsh than I'd rate him, because I rank a couple presidents lower than FDR. I'd personally rate Roosevelt a 2.
If 401(k) was legally mandated for all workers, how do you think it would be better than SS?
It wouild not.
The real reason Republicans do not like Social Security is the tax on employers.
That is the driving force behind all of the criticism. Employers contribute exactly the same amount as the employee, and they want to keep that money for themselves.
Thus, they will use any excuse to run it down in the eyes of workers. Getting the working people to politically abandon the program would be a gigantic windfall for corporations. 401-k programs could never compete with Social Security for return on investment (unless perhaps if the employers were required to contribute dollar for dollar, and even so the risk would be greater), the people would be screwed again.
Very few jobs still have pensions (I've never had one that did), and now, it is pretty unrealistic for a young worker to expect his present employment to last 40 years. Virtually eveery job now is the blacksmithy of 2060.
If 401(k) was legally mandated fo5 all workers, how do you think it would be better than SS?
Why does something have to be legally mandated in order for people to save and plan for their future? Children need government to run their lives. Adults take care of themselves.
I don't know what this means - Virtually every job now is the blacksmithy of 2060.
The real reason Republicans do not like Social Security is the tax on employers.
That is the driving force behind all of the criticism. Employers contribute exactly the same amount as the employee, and they want to keep that money for themselves.
Thus, they will use any excuse to run it down in the eyes of workers. Getting the working people to politically abandon the program would be a gigantic windfall for corporations. 401-k programs could never compete with Social Security for return on investment (unless perhaps if the employers were required to contribute dollar for dollar, and even so the risk would be greater), the people would be screwed again.
Cause gosh it couldnt be that they are denied access to their own money.
I hope you dont actually believe your own drivel
To use an actual example, this is like saying you know for sure that if the government had let GM fail, then the companies making their parts would have simply gone over to ford since ford would have "obviously taken over the market share" since Ford survived without bailouts. They also then argue that the economy overall would have rebounded faster if we let all those companies fail.
Not of single bit of that is true. Its entirely possible we never recover in that scenario. Same with the UCLA projections.
Yes every single bit of it is true and you have no proof otherwise. As if a company only makes GM parts and cannot switch or that used cars don't need parts, lol.
Do you actually think the amount of cars sold would be much less if there were 7 car companies instead of 10? The remaining 7 would need to hire to meet demand. Other parts of the company, for example the finance division, could be purchased from another company in another type of business.
Of course the economy would rebound faster. We've seen proof of this in the mini depression of the early 1920s. Taxes and spending were cut by 40% over 2 years time and UE went from 12 to under 4 in those 2 years.
And the UCLA projections were spot on. How about you quit listening to the ones who never saw the biggest collapse since the Great depression coming. Something that was as obvious as the nose on your face.
Only 2 types of people who didn't see the crash coming. People not paying attention and economic morons.
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