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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 11 days ago)
35,637 posts, read 17,989,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPibbs
The change actually started in the 1990's. Those that grew up with Barney the Dinosaur are now adults. Their mindset is different. They want school to be like a video game. If you fail, just try again.
You do have infinite number of "lives" when you are learning on your own. That's always been the case. But in the real world, you really only get one chance.
If you mess up a job interview, you can't ask the employer for a do-over.
My husband did just that, and got his dream job. So there's that.
In real life, if you fail, you're very often given a second chance. If you contract to install something and it's not done on time, sometimes you completely get a pass with no consequences by stating some of your workers are sick, or sometimes you might offer a little bit extra work to compensate the client for the delay in receiving the service.
This idea that we need to teach kids that you get no do-overs, no credit for work that's not 100% complete on time, etc., is just wrong. In the work force, you usually can expect to be treated with reason, and you get lots of mercy.
This idea that we need to teach kids that you get no do-overs, no credit for work that's not 100% complete on time, etc., is just wrong. In the work force, you usually can expect to be treated with reason, and you get lots of mercy.
Disagree. The base expectation needs to be that you need to do your work to a high degree of completion (maybe not 100%), and it needs to be submitted on time, or you either get no credit or reduced credit.
There should be no expectation by default that you get a pass.
The teacher always has a degree of discretion to give students a pass on an exceptional basis or grant an extension but the rule and expectation MUST be that your work must be done to a high degree of completion on time, or you get no credit or reduced credit.
The pass/fail grading system has been around for a while now, so really I'm not sure this is anything new. But students who don't learn to do homework will be woefully unprepared for college.
The change actually started in the 1990's. Those that grew up with Barney the Dinosaur are now adults. Their mindset is different. They want school to be like a video game. If you fail, just try again.
You do have infinite number of "lives" when you are learning on your own. That's always been the case. But in the real world, you really only get one chance.
If you mess up a job interview, you can't ask the employer for a do-over.
How many times did you take your driver license test?
How about the Bar Exam?
Ever know anyone who took the SAT more than once?
I was a salesman. Don't you think I failed a great many times?
Ever seen a golfer shoot 18? 18 holes in one!
How about a major league baseball player who batted 1000?
Does the army give a man with a machine gun just one bullet?
There are plenty of opportunities to improve yourself in life. You just have to do it.
The pass/fail grading system has been around for a while now, so really I'm not sure this is anything new. But students who don't learn to do homework will be woefully unprepared for college.
I went to college a long time ago.
First thing that happened at college... they gave us a test to make sure we really were smart enough to graduate high school.. and if we weren't we had to go to remedial classes to learn what high school didn't teach us.
I went to a private school.. I aced the exam.
Many of my friends who didn't go to the private school... did not.
Any usage of tiers will result in those in the lower tiers "feeling bad" and attempts to show that bias led to that placement, not achievement, since judging by _any_ metric is inherently racist/sexist/etc'ist.
I feel sorry for anyone being taught in this environment who ends up realizing that since not _everyone_ was taught this way, that you don't get to iterate over that interview, or that elevator pitch to that VC. The "careers" for which this way of thinking prepares a student for actually is no different than the current system for those students who don't execute well, but at least a whole lot of "well intentioned" people get to pat themselves on the back because they "care".
Just let the kids who couldn't get it right repeat the grade. They will feel smarter than the other kids since they will know the material.
This. Honestly high school should be converted to a credit hours system rather than a time based system, just like college.
You have requirements to graduate (X credits in A, Y credits in B etc) and if you satisfy those requirements, you get to graduate. Doesn't matter if you do it in 2 years, 4 years, 10 years.
I may have benefited from such a program, especially early in my school years. I don't expect many people will understand why; too often low grades are assumed to be the result of "laziness". So the student hears that over and over.
Lots of famous achievers were branded "lazy" by their teachers. I certainly was. Personally I have known more lazy teachers than lazy students. Students are more likely to be misguided or disadvantaged than lazy.
But I did well in life. No one ever called me lazy who worked alongside me, or who worked for me when I reached that position. I'm retired now (2010); never did go to college. I began in sales, moved to sales management, then to marketing/sales manager, on to director of sales/marketing, and then to self employment.
I never did learn how to diagram sentences.
Or bored. I was bored, a lot. Standing in front of me and droning on for a half an hour does not spark even a little interest in me, especially when I have already fully grasped the subject.
What schools continue to fail to understand is:
People learn in different ways.
People learn at their own pace. Some learn things far faster than their peers. If the course doesn't challenge them, they stop paying attention.
The more creative the teacher/instructor, the more the students will learn. If you make it interesting, they will be interested.
Until they figure that out, nothing will change.
I excelled in English classes because my own mother made me love reading when I was 4-5 years old.
I'm the kid who enjoyed 1984 (got some of it, but not all of it, was only 10 years old.)
I loved 'Lord of the Flies'. Wasn't too long for me. 'Anna Karenina' was fantastic...well, till the end, but you know what I mean.
Catch-22, Catcher in the Rye, The Grapes of Wrath, Animal Farm, Atlas Shrugged...I could go on for a very long time. I loved them all. I had to read some again as an adult because the child version of me didn't grasp every concept, but because of my mom making me love reading, I've read a ridiculous amount of books in my lifetime - which ultimately helps one ace their English classes with little to no effort.
Science I did really well because it was hands on. That's where I thrive.
Math....I sucked at advanced math. Reason? The instructors sucked. Then, I met someone in college who was sitting on a couch across from me in the lounge. She heard me talking to an acquaintance, asked me what I needed help with, and explained the math to me in 5 minutes - and it clicked. It was how she said it. I needed to know the 'why' of it, and no one ever bothered to tell me 'why'. She did. And then we became best friends, and we went to Denny's all the time to do math. She loved numbers already, I was thrilled that I finally understood it, and could not get enough of doing the problems.
History - boooooooooooring. Until I became an adult and started reading books and watching videos. All of a sudden, it was incredibly interesting.
'One size fits all' doesn't work, yet decade after decade, we continue using the same failed formula.
'One size fits all' doesn't work, yet decade after decade, we continue using the same failed formula.
It's because the government has a near-monopoly on education. An organization that literally incentivizes failure and stagnation.
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