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With failing students "not failing" we will end up with society of burger flippers and cashiers who can make all the mistakes they want and get do-overs.
We are #39 in covid research during 2020.
We are #4 in STEM degrees.
The US is on a declining path with PISA scores.
The future is technology and technology demands skills that are proficient, demanding and EXACT.
The technology will flourish in other countries and work its way here where we will buy it as consumers.
We won't be creating it as producers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanonka
With the current approach those scenarios will increase tenfold at the very least; but most probably will become a norm rather than exception.
So which is it? A country of burger flippers or crappy doctors, farmers, pilots, and engineers?
Kids in high school may be able to get by in high school with these pass/fail systems that we are talking about in this thread, but the reality is that the kids using those systems aren't the same students becoming doctors/pilots/engineers. And if they actually WANTED to become pilots/engineers/physicians, they would have to improve their skills/attitude/ability/work ethic tremendously just to get IN to these programs that lead to the careers mentioned. And at this point, they would be adults, and if they can't get their crap together as adults, then we really don't want them as doctors/engineers/etc. And the kids who are already excelling in these areas will (hopefully) continue to excel in these areas in college and in the professional world, should they choose that path.
of course, I thought you conservatives didn't want today's kids getting all indoctrinated in those liberal elite training compounds anyway?
Many schools have been going into decline for decades. Take what this man, who spent at least 27 years teaching in Paterson,NJ. He initially didn't want to talk about it because he feared losing his job. He retired and then spoke out.
So which is it? A country of burger flippers or crappy doctors, farmers, pilots, and engineers?
Kids in high school may be able to get by in high school with these pass/fail systems that we are talking about in this thread, but the reality is that the kids using those systems aren't the same students becoming doctors/pilots/engineers. And if they actually WANTED to become pilots/engineers/physicians, they would have to improve their skills/attitude/ability/work ethic tremendously just to get IN to these programs that lead to the careers mentioned. And at this point, they would be adults, and if they can't get their crap together as adults, then we really don't want them as doctors/engineers/etc. And the kids who are already excelling in these areas will (hopefully) continue to excel in these areas in college and in the professional world, should they choose that path.
of course, I thought you conservatives didn't want today's kids getting all indoctrinated in those liberal elite training compounds anyway?
So all colleges are now "liberal elite training compounds" ? I wouldn't say "all" but many more are joining the ranks. That may be one reason why Germany is emerging as THE country for a college degree. That used to be the US.
So which is it? A country of burger flippers or crappy doctors, farmers, pilots, and engineers?
Kids in high school may be able to get by in high school with these pass/fail systems that we are talking about in this thread, but the reality is that the kids using those systems aren't the same students becoming doctors/pilots/engineers. And if they actually WANTED to become pilots/engineers/physicians, they would have to improve their skills/attitude/ability/work ethic tremendously just to get IN to these programs that lead to the careers mentioned. And at this point, they would be adults, and if they can't get their crap together as adults, then we really don't want them as doctors/engineers/etc. And the kids who are already excelling in these areas will (hopefully) continue to excel in these areas in college and in the professional world, should they choose that path.
of course, I thought you conservatives didn't want today's kids getting all indoctrinated in those liberal elite training compounds anyway?
It will be both - country of burger flippers AND crappy doctors etc. Those who didn't learn in school that hard work is required for success (well, unless your parent is billionaire or govt official) - will never learn it later. By the way, did you read what you write? You actually are saying that those who can learn by themselves will continue to excel. There are two problems with that. First, then why we need schools at all? And second problem - it's much easier to bring human to a pig level than to raise a pig to a human level. What we see in schools today is exactly this - taking people back to monkey level.
Is it any wonder other countries surpass ours in terms of youth and education?
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The US has historically tested middle of the pack since international comparisons have been made.
The US could do like China does and limit score from a few high performing states. It’s ranking would soar.
Or it could do like many European countries and exclude those in vocational schools. While some vocational schools focus on the trades, no shortage train students for careers in retail and hospitality.
The US has historically tested middle of the pack since international comparisons have been made.
The US could do like China does and limit score from a few high performing states. It’s ranking would soar.
Or it could do like many European countries and exclude those in vocational schools. While some vocational schools focus on the trades, no shortage train students for careers in retail and hospitality.
I notice that some people will point to America's golden age as the 1950s. Well, this is what I see. Today, countries like Germany, South Korea, Japan, those countries are leading in STEM. When America was leading, those countries were in rebuild mode. World War 2 and the Korean War hit those countries hard. By the 1980s, those countries were competing on the level of the USA. The USA used to be the top producer of oil. By the 1970s and 80s, countries in the Middle East were rivaling America. In the 1950s, the Cadillac was a symbol of opulence in America. By the 1980s, BMW, Lamborghini, and Porsche joined Cadillac in that regard. Other countries started to compete with America during the 1970s and 80s.
It will be both - country of burger flippers AND crappy doctors etc. Those who didn't learn in school that hard work is required for success (well, unless your parent is billionaire or govt official) - will never learn it later. By the way, did you read what you write? You actually are saying that those who can learn by themselves will continue to excel. There are two problems with that. First, then why we need schools at all? And second problem - it's much easier to bring human to a pig level than to raise a pig to a human level. What we see in schools today is exactly this - taking people back to monkey level.
Nowhere did I say that. LOL. I think you are confusing what I am saying about HS kids (which this thread is about) and what I am saying about adults.
BUT, it IS true, those who can learn by themselves WILL continue to excel.They are just not the only ones who can/will excel. People CAN learn things themselves, we do it all the time, every day. I don't think someone can learn to be a doctor or an engineer or a politician completely by themselves (I am sure there are licensure issues involved in all of those professions), but people learn things themselves all the time, ESPECIALLY people who have the cognitive ability to pursue the professions that we've been referencing.
No matter how hard you try, a pig is never going to be a human, and a human is never going to be a pig (or a monkey for that matter).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Many schools have been going into decline for decades. Take what this man, who spent at least 27 years teaching in Paterson,NJ. He initially didn't want to talk about it because he feared losing his job. He retired and then spoke out.
Hmm. Interesting, and also interesting that he's taught at the same school for 27 years, so he's credible.
But we're not seeing that here.
His current experience reflects what has been going on since the 60's in inner city New York and New Jersey schools. 80 years of chaos in those schools.
What we do see here, is second semester senior year, the students who are on the very very precipice of graduating but need a couple more credits here and there are offered avenues to achieve that. And that's about 10 kids per year, out of about 580 graduating seniors. They are given extra help, a true hand out, a gift, to get them across the stage if they're close to achieving all the requirements. Those 10 might be given some kind of "art" credit he references.
But we're not seeing the lawlessness in the hallways or classrooms, at all. At all.
Interestingly, his high school, JFK in Paterson is rated 5 out of 10 on GreatSchools (so, average), with this population breakdown: Asian 44%, hispanic 25%, White 21%, Black 9%.
The US has historically tested middle of the pack since international comparisons have been made.
The US could do like China does and limit score from a few high performing states. It’s ranking would soar.
Or it could do like many European countries and exclude those in vocational schools. While some vocational schools focus on the trades, no shortage train students for careers in retail and hospitality.
Excuses, excuses. The left believe that "everyone" is a winner so it should not matter who takes that test..right ?
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