Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sim_Mister
National security of Russia? How is taking Ukraine ensure Russia security?
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Your argument is flawed in that it implies Russia's objective in this operation is to conquer and then to annex Ukraine.
Ukraine is a complex country. From its western borders to the center, it is mainly anti-Russian and pro-western. From the center to the eastern border, it is far more amenable to Russian. Russians - whether born in Russia or Ukraine-born ethnic Russians - exist in Ukraine in large numbers, and not a few actually hold Russian citizenship.
Ukraine is a mostly flat country which served as a direct corridor for two western European leaders whose armies marched through Ukrainian soil in ultimately unsuccessful efforts to subjugate Russia. Adolf Hitler failed in the 1940s in the same manner Napoleon Bonaparte failed more than 120 years before.
Ukraine, as well, is inextricably tied to Russia in culture and in history. Even the Ukrainian language was at one point considered to be not a language of its own but a variant of Russian (Ukrainian and Russian were previously debated on the topic of whether they were two dialects of the same language).
Whether you or anybody else agrees or disagrees with the strategic importance of Ukraine to Russia does not matter to the Russians. They're the ones who live there; they're the ones whose ancestors fought and died western Europeans who came to conquer Russia via Ukraine - and this includes Vladimir Putin himself, for Putin's parents barely survived wounds and disease they suffered during World War II, while Putin's older brother died in the Wehrmacht's siege of Leningrad; and, several of Putin's uncles died in combat fighting German troops.
What the Russians will do in the next few days to several weeks will not be an annexation. Russia will not abrogate and abolish Ukraine as a separate nation-state; the Ukrainian flag will not be prohibited from being flown in Ukraine; and, Ukraine will be permitted to have its own government.
Russia will not annex Ukraine the way Germany annexed Austria (Anschluss) or the way Japan annexed Korea in 1910.
Russia will, however, force Ukraine to install a neutral or pro-Russian government which will commit itself never to have Ukraine join NATO while also committing to halting the 8-year-long shelling and sniping and mortaring of thousands of Russian residents of Donbass. The very reason this entire military conflict began was the Russian foreign ministry's failed attempts to get Kiev's authorities to stop Ukrainian fighters from engaging in what has been nothing short of cold-blooded murder of helpless Russian civilian residents in Donbass via the utilization of military-grade weaponry.
I understand that this last paragraph may contain facts you were not previously aware of, and if this paragraph's contents generate an emotional response, I respectfully urge you to look up these claims. They are all factually true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader
Several reports are showing Russian forces are building up near the Polish border in Belarus. Putin did not stop with Georgia or Crimea. He will not stop until he is stopped by force.
NATO is a defensive pact. It is only a "threat" to Russia if Russia intends to attack.
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Putin did not annex Georgia.
As for the Crimea: Russian troops were already there. The Ukrainians had an agreement whereby Russia was allowed to maintain a presence there due to the Sevastopol naval base. Furthermore, there was a referendum, and the overwhelming majority of Crimeans voted for a merger with Russia (since there is a huge ethnic Russian population there).
Additionally, Crimea was Ukrainian territory only since 1954. Crimea had been Russian territory since before the year 1000, and it was only 9 years after World War II ended that Nikita Khruschev - who succeeded Stalin as the senior leader of the USSR - gave Crimea as a "gift" to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic from the Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic. This maneuver was performed without approval from the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet, and it violated the constitutions of both the RSFSR and the USSR.
NATO is defensive, you claim. Yet, since 1990, one former Warsaw Pact country after another has joined, with NATO bases, troops, hardware (including missiles) have come closer to the Russian border. And this includes missiles aimed at..... Paraguay? No. Bhutan? No. The nearest pizzeria in your town? No.
They're aimed at RUSSIA.
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