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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-25-2024, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Durham NC
5,257 posts, read 3,845,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Well let me explain to you why it's playing the central role in today's problems and can't be disregarded.
See, if not for that fatal Putin's mistake, none of today's bloodshed and destruction would have taken place today. Had he not make choice of playing "Minsk agreement" games, instead of adequately responding to Ukrainian nationalists right there and then in Donbass, BY NOW more and more Russians wouldn't be scrutinizing his actions, wondering whether he is that smart and invincible as his propaganda claimed him to be for the last 20 years.
I won't even mention here again the criticism that was directed at "Putin's men" - the top army brass handpicked by him, and the assassination of the well-accomplished man who dared to criticize them (i.e. Prigozhin.)
If after everything he has said/ done, (and promised,) Putin can't deliver victory to Russians, they'll perceive him differently, and will be scrutinizing him ( and "his team") more closely.

With other words, they WILL NOT be sticking around him any longer as you've guessed. Quite the opposite - they will be looking for a new leader, who CAN deliver them victory.

Well I am afraid that this ship has sailed already some time ago, after Trump changed his opinion on "Ukrainian affair" and said that if he were a president, he'd make peace in the matter of couple of days. This of course involved him threatening Russians ( i.e. Putin) - "Look, we didn't supply Ukrainians any serious weapons YET, but we will, UNLESS..."

Which angered Putin ( since Trump was willing to talk to him from position of power,) and he publicly endorsed Biden instead, as someone "more predictable."
But do Russians think generally speaking ( or did they perceive) US as willing negotiate peace in this war?
From that end opinions vary, because it's unclear to THEM ( to Russians that is,) what "successful negotiations" would look like at this point, as much as what victory would look like (as much as the future of Ukraine.)
But whatever it is, American government made its decision, Republicans including.
So it's the impasse now, with ball being sent in Putin's court.
Oh precarious times we live in.
You must think the recent election in Russia was rigged and the people don't support Putin since he got around 80% of the vote. Looks like no one currently supports him. Ukraine had 8 years to dig in in the east of Ukraine that wasn't easily overrun. We will see how powerful the Russian forces are over the next 6 months. I think they go to the river and also take Odessa less than that wouldn't be total victory but we'll see. The problem with dealing with The West is they can't be trusted to uphold any agreements they make. See Minsk Accords.
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Old 04-25-2024, 10:21 AM
 
5,112 posts, read 2,785,398 times
Reputation: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_N View Post
I guess Poland giving Ukraine $9 billion USD in military aid, and 16 billion euros in humanitarian aid is part of their secret master plan?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/polands-t...111427588.html
Of course Poland has to play its part properly at this point. And there is no secret plan. Just to take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. And when and if they do, Poland will be tempted to act. They may or may not do it. Every country looks out for themselves and grab at opportunities as best they can. Poland and Ukraine have not exactly been buddies historically. Certainly a territory grab is completely possible, especially as Ukraine gets torn up. Some of those pieces may end up falling into Poland as Polish troops enter into them to "help" Ukraine get stabilized and then end up staying permanently. I don't think many people realize how wild this is going to get.
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Old 04-25-2024, 11:31 AM
 
47,070 posts, read 26,188,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
You must think the recent election in Russia was rigged...
Who'd suggest something like that?
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Old 04-25-2024, 12:16 PM
 
5,227 posts, read 3,167,650 times
Reputation: 11145
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Of course Poland has to play its part properly at this point. And there is no secret plan. Just to take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. And when and if they do, Poland will be tempted to act. They may or may not do it. Every country looks out for themselves and grab at opportunities as best they can. Poland and Ukraine have not exactly been buddies historically. Certainly a territory grab is completely possible, especially as Ukraine gets torn up. Some of those pieces may end up falling into Poland as Polish troops enter into them to "help" Ukraine get stabilized and then end up staying permanently. I don't think many people realize how wild this is going to get.
This is the dynamic in the EU no one wants to admit or discuss. Most of Ukraine’s neighbors lost territory back when the USSR drew the borders. Countries like Hungary, Romania, even Türkiye can claim that their lands were stolen. Chaos in Ukraine would be a great opportunity for them to grab valuable land.
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Old 04-25-2024, 12:35 PM
 
5,112 posts, read 2,785,398 times
Reputation: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
This is the dynamic in the EU no one wants to admit or discuss. Most of Ukraine’s neighbors lost territory back when the USSR drew the borders. Countries like Hungary, Romania, even Türkiye can claim that their lands were stolen. Chaos in Ukraine would be a great opportunity for them to grab valuable land.
Exactly correct.
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Old 04-25-2024, 01:00 PM
 
1,387 posts, read 490,565 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
This is the dynamic in the EU no one wants to admit or discuss. Most of Ukraine’s neighbors lost territory back when the USSR drew the borders. Countries like Hungary, Romania, even Türkiye can claim that their lands were stolen. Chaos in Ukraine would be a great opportunity for them to grab valuable land.
Turkey isn't even properly held to account for the Armenian Genocide perpetrated roughly 100 years. They get away with turning (once more) what was once an iconic Christian church into a mosque with hardly any significant pushback. The only reason why they're even in NATO is due to their proximity to Russia and access to the Black Sea. Erdogan boasts of the Turkish diaspora in Europe being 'its future'. But yet for some reason Russia is the neo-imperialist force? Examine the socio-political transformations taking place in western Europe. It's not Russians perpetrating it.
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Old 04-25-2024, 04:02 PM
 
47,070 posts, read 26,188,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
This is the dynamic in the EU no one wants to admit or discuss. Most of Ukraine’s neighbors lost territory back when the USSR drew the borders. Countries like Hungary, Romania, even Türkiye can claim that their lands were stolen. Chaos in Ukraine would be a great opportunity for them to grab valuable land.
Every single country in the EU can make some sort of historical claim to a neighbor's land. EU was in no little part formed because of this, and because throwing away a few million young men every 20 years or so over border drawing is a really damn stupid way of doing things. Now we outmaneuver each other by passing EU regulations to undercut each other and the young men butt heads over football matches. Much better.

Then Putin decided it was time to play 19th-century Great Power again, and here we are.
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Old 04-25-2024, 04:09 PM
 
47,070 posts, read 26,188,020 times
Reputation: 29558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
I think most of us Z-Bots know full well China is supporting Russia. But how?
China is not interested in an alliance with Russia. But they understand power politics very well, and China is very interested in Russia's natural reserves. There will be billionaires made by extracting oil etc. from Siberia, and they will be speaking Mandarin. The power dynamics are not in Russia's favor at all.

Also, of course, China is looking at the formerly-USSR Asian countries - the 'stans, essentially - and are showing Russia that two can play the "Sphere of interest" game.
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Old 04-25-2024, 04:39 PM
bu2
 
24,170 posts, read 15,032,389 times
Reputation: 13036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Yet another report of China being accused, by Biden, of helping Russia.

So why are the Zelensky bots still claiming China is not helping Russia?

https://www.firstpost.com/world/us-b...-13763450.html

China, Iran, and North Korea are all supporting Russia. Russia isn't alone in this war. Every $60 billion that goes to Ukraine, is another $60 billion that goes to Russia from their own allies.
You Putin bots seem to be incapable of understanding the difference between supporting and doing business with. How much does Putin pay you? Or do you just watch too much Tucker Carlson who must have been touched in the wrong place when he was younger by a Ukrainian.

China is making a lot of profit off Russia. And they still aren't selling them weaponry. North Korea and Iran aren't financing Russia, but they will sell them anything they want.
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Old 04-25-2024, 04:43 PM
 
5,112 posts, read 2,785,398 times
Reputation: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
You Putin bots seem to be incapable of understanding the difference between supporting and doing business with. How much does Putin pay you? Or do you just watch too much Tucker Carlson who must have been touched in the wrong place when he was younger by a Ukrainian.

China is making a lot of profit off Russia. And they still aren't selling them weaponry. North Korea and Iran aren't financing Russia, but they will sell them anything they want.
I wonder how much Zelensky is paying the Zelensky bots that are on here?
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