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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 192 39.26%
No 250 51.12%
Unsure 47 9.61%
Voters: 489. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-08-2022, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,738,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
They can simply begin to target Ukraine's energy infrastructure. Something so simple, yet something they haven't really done.
Maybe this threat is overestimated and the unintended consequences could trigger NATO's article 5. This would be consistent with everything we have seen with Russia's military.

https://www.cpomagazine.com/cyber-se...nfrastructure/

Quote:
Josh Lospinoso, Co-founder and CEO of Shift5, questioned Russia’s ability to execute more effective cyber attacks than previously witnessed. “It is unlikely that Russian hackers have any new tools or tricks to launch more effective cyberattacks against Ukraine,” he said.

Citing Ukraine’s previous successful attempts in warding off Russian cyber terrorism, the Shift5 co-founder impugned the source’s credibility, “Russia is having more success with missiles through the air than attacks on the internet, so the idea of Russia putting more energy behind cyberattacks does not compute.”
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Old 10-08-2022, 11:10 AM
 
3,113 posts, read 941,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Maybe this threat is overestimated and the unintended consequences could trigger NATO's article 5. This would be consistent with everything we have seen with Russia's military.

https://www.cpomagazine.com/cyber-se...nfrastructure/
Why would it trigger NATO's article 5 exactly? Ukraine is not part of NATO.

Also, by go after Ukraine's energy infrastructure, I mean fire ballistic missiles with high-tonnage munitions at all key factories, service stations, transport stations, generation and transmission stations. Basically, make it lights out over Kiev, and do this for the winter.
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Old 10-08-2022, 11:17 AM
 
78,580 posts, read 60,772,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
This would be a war crime, FYI. So both Russia and Ukrainians have done war crimes [as I understand, Ukraine has taken credit for this].
Explain specifically why this would be a war crime.
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Old 10-08-2022, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,738,349 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
Why would it trigger NATO's article 5 exactly? Ukraine is not part of NATO.

Also, by go after Ukraine's energy infrastructure, I mean fire ballistic missiles with high-tonnage munitions at all key factories, service stations, transport stations, generation and transmission stations. Basically, make it lights out over Kiev, and do this for the winter.
Here is the NATO article 5

Quote:
The FBI and CISA warned that Russian industrial malware could spill to other countries, producing unintended consequences and escalating the conflict.

In July, U.S. President Joe Biden warned that disruptive cyber attacks against critical infrastructure could trigger a military response.

NATO had also warned that “malicious cumulative cyber activities” could invoke Article 5.
Ukraine is warning of the missile attacks...then there is the question how many precision guided munitions does Russia really have?? Those are awfully expensive bombs and reports are that Russia is running low...so could they really pull off an effective attack?? We will see.
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Old 10-08-2022, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,683 posts, read 5,545,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
This would be a war crime, FYI. So both Russia and Ukrainians have done war crimes [as I understand, Ukraine has taken credit for this].
Russia is committing war crimes every single day.

For example, earlier today: Multiple explosions rock eastern Ukraine city of Kharkiv
Quote:
Kharkiv Mayor Ihor Terekhov said on Telegram that the early-morning explosions were the result of missile strikes in the center of the city. He said that the blasts sparked fires at one of the city’s medical institutions and a nonresidential building.
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Old 10-08-2022, 11:54 AM
 
3,113 posts, read 941,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Here is the NATO article 5
IMO, this is as likely to happen as Putin detonating a low yield nuclear weapon.
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Old 10-08-2022, 11:57 AM
 
3,113 posts, read 941,735 times
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Explain specifically why this would be a war crime.
Acts of terrorism are always war crimes.
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Old 10-08-2022, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,598,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
Acts of terrorism are always war crimes.
Destroying a bridge that actively supplies war materials to a war front is not an act of terrorism, it has a clear military impact and Russia will feel it over the next whatever months it takes to repair that bridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ticking View Post
Europe won't have the stones to
Statements starting like usually haven't aged well this year.
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Old 10-08-2022, 12:20 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,153,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Ukrainians have their own culture.
Absolutely!
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Old 10-08-2022, 12:21 PM
 
3,113 posts, read 941,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Destroying a bridge that actively supplies war materials to a war front is not an act of terrorism, it has a clear military impact and Russia will feel it over the next whatever months it takes to repair that bridge.
Act of terrorism because it was done out of uniform and not in accordance with usual rules of engagement.
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