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Old 06-26-2022, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,820 posts, read 19,513,881 times
Reputation: 9619

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Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
The right to privacy is in the Constitution. That would include bodily autonomy.
so you are against vaccine mandates then also????

 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:30 PM
 
25,461 posts, read 9,836,067 times
Reputation: 15359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastphilly View Post
Apparently, the majority of jurists on the Supreme court who are better educated than you in the rule of law say different.
For 50 years they said the opposite. So were they better educated then? Or are they better educated now because they agree with you?
 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:30 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,161 posts, read 15,650,859 times
Reputation: 17152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibginnie View Post
I'm rather curious about why this has not happened.

Why do people not lobby their legislators to change the laws with respect to abortions? There are three co-equal branches of government, the Executive, the Legislative and the Judicial. Well, theJudicial branch has just weighed in on their interpretation of the Constitution with regard to abortion. They do not make the laws. Why is everyone so ticked off about their ruling when an amendment to the Constitution or a law could make the SCOTUS' ruling moot?

In my humble opinion, citizens of this country are too lazy to bother to do this and congress (legislative branch) won't take it on because ... well I don't know why they haven't bothered. Maybe too lazy to do their jobs?


For those that don't know their civics:

Government source
I've said this exact thing multiple times. Roe was standing on its own as nothing more than a court ruling That ruling did NOT amend the Constitution nor was it codified as law. The states were still free to restrict abortion or not as they saw fit.
. The Roe v Wade decision was not binding as a Constitutional right nor an established law.

And that simply put is all the court said in its decision. That the authority in the matter belongs and has always belonged to the individual states. If the federal legislature had passed a federal law after Roe then this would not be happening.

But now...so sorry. If you don't like your states laws then get them changed. If the "overwhelming majority" of all US citizens in all 50 states want unrestricted abortion access it shouldn't be that hard to get state legislators to listen.

They are bound by law to follow the will of their constituencies. Something I believe they need to be reminded of. Harry Reid set a precedent in the 90s by ignoring his constituents and "voting his conscience" on the Omnibus Crime Bill. Publicly came out and flat said he wasnt listening to Nevadans as the people he was supposed to be representing. And he got away with it.

The moral and personal feelings I may have about abortion have NOTHING to do with where I stand in this. Nor do anyone elses. The correct Constitutional and legal decision has been made. The fight over this is back at state level. Where it always belonged.
 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:31 PM
 
25,461 posts, read 9,836,067 times
Reputation: 15359
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
why not now... since we are talking bodily autonomy... it actually makes sense with vaccine mandates and mask mandates

its simple the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT can NOT mandate any of these things about bodily autonomy, it IS a states issue
Nobody was forced to take a vaccine or wear a mask. As a matter of fact where I live, many people didn't wear masks the entire time Covid was raging. So there is that.
 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,970,806 times
Reputation: 17878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristinas_Cap View Post
it’s astonishing how little people know about the constitution, and the philosophical views which inspired it. limited federal government, legislative power held by states, representatives elected by the people to enact legislation, accountable to the people.

this gives you more liberty, more control over government, states reflecting the wishes of those they serve.
Many people understand the Constitution and the philosophy behind it. It's just that the fallout resulting from certain SC decisions are upsetting long standing rights and assumption we have come to rely on. The "rights" we lived under and depended on for almost 50 years have been pulled out from under all of society. And the court also presented us with a list of other longstanding rulings that could be in jeopardy.

So yes, this is not just about fixing a legal wrong. It is also about upsetting people's lives in a major way.
 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:38 PM
 
1,964 posts, read 707,075 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Nobody was forced to take a vaccine or wear a mask. As a matter of fact where I live, many people didn't wear masks the entire time Covid was raging. So there is that.
Did you try to travel or go into a Fed building? Your local Fed did not enforce the rules, which did not mean it did not exist
 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
38,014 posts, read 22,193,086 times
Reputation: 13834
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
They already do. Abortions past a certain phase in a pregnancy are illegal in most states unless there is a health risk for the mother. Vermont has no restrictions which means you can have an abortion even on the day of delivery (disgusting). But in most states oyou can't have an abortion after 24 weeks. The government is controlling your body to a certain degree




Can you show me where in the 14th amendment used by the Roe V Wade case gives a Constitutional right to an abortion? I didn't see it in any of the five sections of that amendment.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

That's why SCOTUS overturned the decision. If a right is not specifically stated in the Constitution then the 9th and 10th amendments apply
The "right to privacy" to get an abortion isn't even in the Constitution. So R v W was just a bad ruling all the way around. Abortion laws should have always been decided upon at the state level. Unfortunately we have lost 50 years of growth and learning to understand abortion laws, as a society. We never learned as a society to iron out abortion laws in such a way that we the people could have eventually compromised on them. The SCOTUS took this process away from us.

So it will take a decade or so for the people to figure this out. The extremists will be the ones screaming the loudest, so they will be getting their way for the first few years. I am going to assume that after a decade of the crazies trying to force their views on us, cooler heads will prevail, and we will have sensible abortion laws.

So the freakout on both sides will become noisy for a decade, just prepare for it, live thru it, and don't jump on the band wagon with the uncompromising extremists. and please don't ruin personal relationships and reputations getting sucked into the tribalism from the baby killers or bible thumping purists.
 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:43 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
2,033 posts, read 1,987,640 times
Reputation: 1437
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
For 50 years they said the opposite. So were they better educated then? Or are they better educated now because they agree with you?
In two instances they said the opposite and the most recent visit on that topic of abortion was 30 years ago and the vote was 5-4. Seemed to be close to getting overturned 20 years after Roe. So now it's 5-4 the other way and now in your opinion it was egregiously wrong? Don't make me laugh.

Since the job of the Supreme Court is to accurately interpret the constitution perhaps you can provide proof where it states the right to privacy, or better yet stipulate the right to abortion. I'll wait
 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:47 PM
 
13,495 posts, read 4,317,401 times
Reputation: 5405
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90 View Post

So yes, this is not just about fixing a legal wrong. It is also about upsetting people's lives in a major way.

I don't. This will work itself out. Even liberal Europe has abortion limits and it wasn't decided by the courts. Germany has abortions on demand until the 12 week. Germany is doing fine, don't you think?
 
Old 06-26-2022, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,970,806 times
Reputation: 17878
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuakerBaker View Post
The most vulnerable are those that aren't even considered legal humans, but can feel pain, have brain waves, and recognize voices.

The answer is not to kill these humans, but to increase the social safety net
.
Sadly, too many of the ones who want to eliminate abortion are the same ones who say "not my problem" after the baby is born to someone who is incapable if caring for it. You know, the people who don't want their tax dollars going towards feeding hungry babies, otherwise known as welfare or WIC for infants. .
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