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Get the federal government out of the student loan process! Tuition will drop like a rock, when this happens!
For the unfortunate soul who took out $347,000 in loans, you signed on the dotted line. There is no one else to blame but yourself. Have fun for the next thirty years...
Possibly... And many will not get to go to college period. Not sure what the answer is. This would likely involve some hard advice.
I get where you are coming from and agree we have a mess.
Imagine they have a speech about the real world as the graduation speech.
1) Life for the bottom half in the US is very basic or involves a ton of debt. Yes what many people would call crappy. There is no guarantee you will get a job, even with a 4 year degree.
2) Bosses and bankers are mean and you likely need both.
3) Most of your dreams are fantasies that wont happen.
4) Many rich guys are out to get you like payday lenders and even big landlords. Stay away from them as much as you can.
5) No. Life is not fair.
6) If you are not in the top 40%, the latest phone is out of your reach. If you are not in the top 5%, that Beemer is out of your reach. Deal with it.
7) Yes a ton in the top 10% look down on you without even knowing you. On the other side, many of the so called progressives dont actually want to help you, but rather use you to empower themselves.
etc.
This varies massively from state to state.
In NJ, the trades are private institutions for big money and dont really do that great a job. A bonus is only the most expensive ones can get you loans for their big price tag.
NJ does a great job for college bound kids K-12. They suck for trade bound kids.
In other states, the trades are in the county colleges and it is much better.
If you get the government out of it, you may well keep many from getting a degree at all.
Yes you can join the military if you qualify. You might end up dead or disabled.
Sometimes there is no good answer.
My answer would be long term and it would involve expanding county colleges to handle a bunch of the most popular 4 year degrees and most trades. I get along fine with my 18 year old son. He knows as long as he has a job and is working toward a goal, he has a roof to sleep under.
I agree. Once he gets his foot in the door that $347k can be paid off in a few years.
Under a normal payback framework for a student loan, he has 10 years. I calculated his payments at ~$4,100 monthly given the interest rate and the ten year window.
We are talking about a guy who has loans for roughly 2.5x what his tuition and fees cost, so he isn't exactly disciplined. He also borrowed all that money, went through the years of law school and has schlepped out on taking the bar exam because of personal stress, so we are also talking about someone who cannot put personal life aside to accomplish meaningful goals. He has passed the bar exam in New Mexico...5 years later. Oh, and of course, he is now on public assistance in the forms of rent assistance and SNAP.
All of that together points to LAZY. I bet if we could look up his class standing at his law school, he didn't crack the top half, in a law school with a 65% acceptance rate (meaning it ain't real tough or exclusive).
I used to work at one of the top 20 law firms in the country. We recruited attorneys from the obvious top law schools, but also from the local not so famous schools. Only difference - at Big Time Law School, you had to be top 5%, and at Local Podunk Law School, you had to be #1-2 in your class. Either way, we only recruited the top percentiles. Starting pay the year I left was something like $145-150k, but you were salary exempt and expected to bill a minimum of 3,200 hours annually, which after factoring in the percentage of work time that is billable and all that, about an 80 hour work week minimum. Most of the associates I knew worked 80-100 hours weekly and didn't think much of it. They knew when they started L1 back in the day that this was the gig.
Now while that might sound horrible, anyone surviving that grind either got very handsome salary increases in the associate ranks at our firm, or they left and became partners at other firms. And the money indeed rolled in.
That anecdote is background info to explain the part Steve Pederzani missed when he was thinking this:
Quote:
"Whoever told you that lawyers have instant tickets to the middle class, that maybe existed 10 or 20 years ago, but that doesn't exist anymore. It's not the same job market anymore."
And here is that part - yes, you can knock down mad coin as an attorney in the US. You simply have to work your ass off in law school not just with class standing but with all those extracurriculars that go into the well rounded resume, and then assuming you did kill it in law school, you need to knock down 6-10 years of working 80-100 hours per week serving your clients' best interests, and then there is a good chance you'll make solid cash.
But here's the thing....the same holds true for any major, any job, etc. If you bust your ass in school, do the extra curriculars and all the little things, and then grind 80-100 a week AT ANY JOB....you'll do pretty well in life.
He's wrong about one thing - there NEVER WERE instant tickets to the middle class. It always required work.
Why anyone would choose a degree and field based on others saying it would be high paying and all, is beyond me. One should choose something because they want to do it.
Second, I have a feeling he used some of his loans to pay other expenses.
This doesn't sound a like an attorney I would want representing me. We are supposed to be believe he isn't even good enough to be a public defender? No jobs out there for lawyers? Really?
Seen this many times. The fella went to a 2nd (maybe 3rd tier) law school. I am sure its instruction is fine but it simply does not have the juice of place like Harvard, UCLA, or even University of Washington.
As such, unless he was near the top of the class (guessing he wasn't) or has connections (so far, no) then he has issues.
He should look at small firms or opening a solo practice. Hustle and it may work out.
Here;s an idea. Hang up his own shingle and charge less than $500 to fill in an on-line will kit. He'll have plenty of business.
Do you know how much it is to rent office space, pay for licensing, pay for continuing legal education and pay for professional liability insurance (plus marketing) before a single dollar comes into an office as a legal fee?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
But here's the thing....the same holds true for any major, any job, etc. If you bust your ass in school, do the extra curriculars and all the little things, and then grind 80-100 a week AT ANY JOB....you'll do pretty well in life.
However, with lawyers once a person gets off that big firm train, there's no getting back on. I knew people who spent 10 years trying to 'break in' to large firm practices. It doesn't work.
Either you start out there or you can forget it. Sometimes if you have a major state elective post a person can put the toothpaste back in the tube, but it does not happen often.
From what I’ve heard is, you kind of know what kind of lawyer you can be based on the law school you go to. If you don’t go to a top 10 (or at least a top 20), you’ll probably end up being the “other type of lawyer.” (of course there are always exceptions).
...
Unfortunately, being a law school graduate does not have the same guarantees in-terms if salary.
It's more regional, though again for a Wall St or K Street job out of college, you probably do have to go to a top 10.
But regionally, there are plenty of "known" law schools where your grades and work in school make your income. For example, I know that UNC-Chapel Hill grads can get a good job on a good track "anywhere" in the Southeast. They're about 25th. Right next to Alabama Law, which I'm sure fills lawyer jobs in the Gulf Coast.
U Washington is 49th and I'm sure the PacNW is full of their grads, doing well.
Under a normal payback framework for a student loan, he has 10 years. I calculated his payments at ~$4,100 monthly given the interest rate and the ten year window.
We are talking about a guy who has loans for roughly 2.5x what his tuition and fees cost, so he isn't exactly disciplined. He also borrowed all that money, went through the years of law school and has schlepped out on taking the bar exam because of personal stress, so we are also talking about someone who cannot put personal life aside to accomplish meaningful goals. He has passed the bar exam in New Mexico...5 years later. Oh, and of course, he is now on public assistance in the forms of rent assistance and SNAP.
All of that together points to LAZY. I bet if we could look up his class standing at his law school, he didn't crack the top half, in a law school with a 65% acceptance rate (meaning it ain't real tough or exclusive).
I used to work at one of the top 20 law firms in the country. We recruited attorneys from the obvious top law schools, but also from the local not so famous schools. Only difference - at Big Time Law School, you had to be top 5%, and at Local Podunk Law School, you had to be #1-2 in your class. Either way, we only recruited the top percentiles. Starting pay the year I left was something like $145-150k, but you were salary exempt and expected to bill a minimum of 3,200 hours annually, which after factoring in the percentage of work time that is billable and all that, about an 80 hour work week minimum. Most of the associates I knew worked 80-100 hours weekly and didn't think much of it. They knew when they started L1 back in the day that this was the gig.
Now while that might sound horrible, anyone surviving that grind either got very handsome salary increases in the associate ranks at our firm, or they left and became partners at other firms. And the money indeed rolled in.
That anecdote is background info to explain the part Steve Pederzani missed when he was thinking this:
And here is that part - yes, you can knock down mad coin as an attorney in the US. You simply have to work your ass off in law school not just with class standing but with all those extracurriculars that go into the well rounded resume, and then assuming you did kill it in law school, you need to knock down 6-10 years of working 80-100 hours per week serving your clients' best interests, and then there is a good chance you'll make solid cash.
But here's the thing....the same holds true for any major, any job, etc. If you bust your ass in school, do the extra curriculars and all the little things, and then grind 80-100 a week AT ANY JOB....you'll do pretty well in life.
He's wrong about one thing - there NEVER WERE instant tickets to the middle class. It always required work.
When I graduated college in 1988 - 34 years ago - and the peers that then went to law school either straight or 2-3 years later ... the lawyers got paid more than me but they ALL worked more. Yes, it was a factory grind 80-100 hours a week for 2-3 years. So not even just "10-20 years ago"....no, even 10 years ago the glut of kids with crappy rankings in cheap law programs weren't getting paid and didn't have jobs.
I forgot Mr. Pederzani is a stereotyped classic example of the Millenial generation. Somehow they were led to not only believe, but hold as a VALUE - that things would be easy and the way they wanted them to be.. They tend to believe they'd have a 40 hour workweek (max) and be partner - or at least partner-like income - in a year, maybe 2.
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