Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Law schools now advise folks against enrolling who do not have connections involved in law practice. For decades there have been more law graduates than legal jobs. I know of legal secretaries and paralegals who were members of the bar.
There are 81 legal jobs advertised in the paper? I bet they got 300 applicants.
300 applicants per job.
Sometimes a very loyal and competent legal secretary of paralegal will form relationships with attorneys in their office and then go to work for that same office as an attorney. Of course that is not a real common thing but it does happen.
Camillae Vasquez, Johnny Depp's lawyer who won the case for him attended USC undergrad and Southwestern School of Law. Southwestern is respected but it's not one of the biggies. A lot of people in Southern California do attend there and they do get a good education but it's certainly not a top top tier school.
You just have to be smart and good, and good at making connections. Otherwise, being an attorney is a middle-class job. You can do it. You can make a living but you're not going to get rich or even well to do.
This guy needs to go to work being an advocate for the people that he helped as a social worker. That's where he's got experience and that's where he can get a foot in the door. It's a living. He needs to negotiate down his monthly loan payments as much as he can and just suck it up.
However, with lawyers once a person gets off that big firm train, there's no getting back on. I knew people who spent 10 years trying to 'break in' to large firm practices. It doesn't work.
Either you start out there or you can forget it. Sometimes if you have a major state elective post a person can put the toothpaste back in the tube, but it does not happen often.
Totally understand and agree.
If Big Time Lawyer is your career goal, the foundation for that gets laid in middle school, and involves tireless bust-ass from that point until about your 8-10th year at Big Firm Of Much Power.
And when I did work at said Big Firm Of Much Power, everyone knew from the opening bell that no matter how many hours you did bill, the only possible way anyone makes partner at such firms is being family or very close friends with giant sized corporate somebody's on the level of Gates, Musk, Scott, Bezos et al. If you can't make it rain, you never get out of the Associate ranks. Granted, when I left, our senior associates all pulled in like $450-600k, so it wasn't exactly poverty, but Big Time Gazillionaire Attorney is a title reserved for people with connections who also never finished less than first in their class in every class since kindergarten.
So many things go into being wealthy solely from becoming an attorney, and even for rainmakers, 80-100 hours a week well into your 40s is a prereq.
I worked for many years at "Big Firms of Much Power." in two major cities. Some of those firms are even more powerful now, and some are bye-bye - big firms that were bastions of authority back in the day.
I would never want to be a corporate attorney in a "Big Firm of Much Power." I've seen what it does to people. I've seen what it does to summer associates and first year associates. NO THANKS. It changes you. Bigtime. You're never the same. To some people, the power, prestige and money is worth it. A lot of them are complete a-holes. Some of them started out that way. Others becames that way - and sooner than later.
I remember one young kid (OK he was ten years younger than me at that point) a brand new associate after having been a summer associate. He couldn't cut it and he was let go. He went to all the right schools, passed the bar on the first attempt, but he just wasn't big firm material. He hung out a single shingle in Palm Springs. I think the real problem was that he was gay and that's why he wasn't accepted. Back then (30 years ago) being gay in the corporate world wasn't accepted like it is now.
I worked for many years at "Big Firms of Much Power." in two major cities. Some of those firms are even more powerful now, and some are bye-bye - big firms that were bastions of authority back in the day.
I would never want to be a corporate attorney in a "Big Firm of Much Power." I've seen what it does to people. I've seen what it does to summer associates and first year associates. NO THANKS. It changes you. Bigtime. You're never the same. To some people, the power, prestige and money is worth it. A lot of them are complete a-holes. Some of them started out that way. Others becames that way - and sooner than later.
I remember one young kid (OK he was ten years younger than me at that point) a brand new associate after having been a summer associate. He couldn't cut it and he was let go. He went to all the right schools, passed the bar on the first attempt, but he just wasn't big firm material. He hung out a single shingle in Palm Springs. I think the real problem was that he was gay and that's why he wasn't accepted. Back then (30 years ago) being gay in the corporate world wasn't accepted like it is now.
I don't think this is a fair stereotype. It certainly doesn't apply to all of them as you seem to be implying. As I mentioned in another post, I come from 3 generations of lawyers, and the best, most ethical person I have ever known was a corporate lawyer. He was a close relative of mine, who passed away 3 years ago, and was so loved that over 500 people came to his funeral. It had to be held at a synagogue because there wasn't a funeral home in the area big enough for the service.
He had an MBA and was a JD, and was a commercial litigator, but he was also a complete "boy scout", in every sense of the word. He was a staunch conservative, but not like the religious type of conservative. He believed to his core that capitalism and democracy was the way to lift people out of poverty, and he had my most leftist of friends questioning their beliefs. After sitting down with him for a while, one of my friends turned to me and described him as "a force of nature".
I remember one time, we were on our way home from the golf course in the Hamptons, and a Mercedes S Class hit a beat up, old Camry. The woman driving the Mercedes got out and started yelling at the woman in the Camry, who barely spoke English, as if SHE was the one at fault. He had us wait there until the police arrived, gave the cop his card and told him that he saw the whole thing and he would be a witness that the Mercedes hit the Camry, and not the other way around.
He retired at 60 because he wanted to give back, so he created a foundation to raise money for pediatric cancer research, where he raised millions of dollars, several million of which came out of his own bank account. And he spent the remaining 5 years of his life devoting the same 80 hours a week to that foundation that he did to his law practice previously. He never devoted that time to any of it for the power, prestige, or money. He devoted that time because that is who he was.
There are people in this world who are not happy to sit in front of a TV drinking beers all day. There are people in this world who love what they do. It's not that they are living to work. It is that the work that they are doing is what they love doing with their time. The people who are truly successful in life are the people who can earn a living doing what they love spending their time doing.
And it's not like he is an anomaly. I have spent time with his law partners. Some of them are really good people too. And yes, some of them are A'holes. Same goes for my other family members who are lawyers. Some lawyers are definitely scumbags, and I think they unfairly give the whole bunch a bad rap.
This guy needs to go to work being an advocate for the people that he helped as a social worker. That's where he's got experience and that's where he can get a foot in the door. It's a living. He needs to negotiate down his monthly loan payments as much as he can and just suck it up.
friend, he can go to work for any non-profit and make "income-based repayment" - a fraction of what his payment would be - and be done in 10 years. The USGovt will forgive the rest.
Don't believe a word this shyster says. If "New Mexico Society for Prairie Dogs" needs a staff attorney at $30K a year, he can do that, pay about $37 a month for 10 years, and get the entire loan (+ what he owes you and me in interest) wiped clean.
friend, he can go to work for any non-profit and make "income-based repayment" - a fraction of what his payment would be - and be done in 10 years. The USGovt will forgive the rest.
Don't believe a word this shyster says. If "New Mexico Society for Prairie Dogs" needs a staff attorney at $30K a year, he can do that, pay about $37 a month for 10 years, and get the entire loan (+ what he owes you and me in interest) wiped clean.
I am in IBR. I was told that it was 20 years. But yes, if he is lucky enough to get offered such a position he can do something like that.
Possibly... And many will not get to go to college period. Not sure what the answer is. This would likely involve some hard advice.
I get where you are coming from and agree we have a mess.
Imagine they have a speech about the real world as the graduation speech.
1) Life for the bottom half in the US is very basic or involves a ton of debt. Yes what many people would call crappy. There is no guarantee you will get a job, even with a 4 year degree.
2) Bosses and bankers are mean and you likely need both.
3) Most of your dreams are fantasies that wont happen.
4) Many rich guys are out to get you like payday lenders and even big landlords. Stay away from them as much as you can.
5) No. Life is not fair.
6) If you are not in the top 40%, the latest phone is out of your reach. If you are not in the top 5%, that Beemer is out of your reach. Deal with it.
7) Yes a ton in the top 10% look down on you without even knowing you. On the other side, many of the so called progressives dont actually want to help you, but rather use you to empower themselves.
etc.
This varies massively from state to state.
In NJ, the trades are private institutions for big money and dont really do that great a job. A bonus is only the most expensive ones can get you loans for their big price tag.
NJ does a great job for college bound kids K-12. They suck for trade bound kids.
In other states, the trades are in the county colleges and it is much better.
If you get the government out of it, you may well keep many from getting a degree at all.
Yes you can join the military if you qualify. You might end up dead or disabled.
Sometimes there is no good answer.
My answer would be long term and it would involve expanding county colleges to handle a bunch of the most popular 4 year degrees and most trades. I get along fine with my 18 year old son. He knows as long as he has a job and is working toward a goal, he has a roof to sleep under.
A great post and based solely on truth!!
Too many people today feel that they are entitled to the best of the best after finishing college. Many are shocked that their four year degree in Eastern European Folk Dancing hasn’t landed them a $100K job immediately after college and tend to have a difficult time in understanding that they have to work-up to that $100K income with some actual effort and experience in their chosen field.
This generation that is now entering the workforce was conditioned by parents and the schools who brainwashed them into believing that they are special, when in reality, only a few are truly special and truly gifted. The rest, well, at best tend to be average…. Yes, I was one of those average kids, but I knew that from get-go and without question, I’d had to work twice as hard to get where I wanted to be in life. In my case, it took years, but I exceeded my goals… By doing the hard work.
Honestly, there are a lot of kids that are in college and basically, they’re wasting their time since many lack the drive to be successful in life. Without that drive to succeed, a four year degree means nothing. So in the end, you are working in a job you hate and saddle with a massive student loan for not being honest with yourself AND your true abilities.
Heck, growing up, I wanted to be a B-52 bomber pilot, but when reality hit me, I ended up being a tank commander.
So, for all those college grads that failed to launch, they need to do a reality check on themselves AND make the needed changes to make themselves more competitive in the job market. Also, in the real world, that college WOKE-ism isn’t compatible within most work environments. And demanding a month of paid vacation isn’t the smartest move within your first year of employment, if you are not one of the very few truly gifted people out there.
Too many people today feel that they are entitled to the best of the best after finishing college. Many are shocked that their four year degree in Eastern European Folk Dancing hasn’t landed them a $100K job immediately after college and tend to have a difficult time in understanding that they have to work-up to that $100K income with some actual effort and experience in their chosen field.
This generation that is now entering the workforce was conditioned by parents and the schools who brainwashed them into believing that they are special, when in reality, only a few are truly special and truly gifted. The rest, well, at best tend to be average…. Yes, I was one of those average kids, but I knew that from get-go and without question, I’d had to work twice as hard to get where I wanted to be in life. In my case, it took years, but I exceeded my goals… By doing the hard work.
Honestly, there are a lot of kids that are in college and basically, they’re wasting their time since many lack the drive to be successful in life. Without that drive to succeed, a four year degree means nothing. So in the end, you are working in a job you hate and saddle with a massive student loan for not being honest with yourself AND your true abilities.
Heck, growing up, I wanted to be a B-52 bomber pilot, but when reality hit me, I ended up being a tank commander.
So, for all those college grads that failed to launch, they need to do a reality check on themselves AND make the needed changes to make themselves more competitive in the job market. Also, in the real world, that college WOKE-ism isn’t compatible within most work environments. And demanding a month of paid vacation isn’t the smartest move within your first year of employment, if you are not one of the very few truly gifted people out there.
Got this coming up with my daughter age 16. She is ranked (last I looked) #23 out of 150 in her class. IE the first kid that does not qualify for scholarships in NJ. The problem in NJ is a quarter of the top kids all fight for the to 15% that qualifies for scholarships. 3.95 unweighted GPA is just not enough any more. Its a terrible dog fight now.
Im prepping her that her best course is first 2 years in county college then transfer rather than 4 years at say Rutgers at 32K a year. We get along. I already told her that if she keeps acting age 20 I will keep treating her as if she is 20 and that she has a place to sleep until her early mid 20s free of charge as long as she keeps working and moving forward. IE good kid friends, church mission trips and I'm trying to stay off her radar as much as I can while quietly making sure things are still good.
She is looking for her first job at a new burger place a step above Micky Ds but below say Applebees. I also told her that if she kept that up, at 18 she could work for the non alcohol serving casual restaurants where she would do VERY well while in college.
Yes you can join the military if you qualify. You might end up dead or disabled.
You might end up dead or disabled just walking out of your house, Texas governor Greg Abbott was hit by an oak tree while going for a routine run.
Everyone is going to die. If you want to die poor, then don't take any risks. I was the first in my family to join the Air Force, get a college degree, and earn solid money back in the civilian world because I took some risks.
Poverty doesn't go away via government, it goes away when you pull up your bootstraps. You have to take the risks, the government won't do it for you. "Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees."
Last edited by Rocko20; 07-27-2022 at 04:52 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
