Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Prior to the early 1900s women couldn't have a bank account without the permission of their husband or dad. They couldn't get employment -- by law and by societal rules.
They had no choice but to look for a man to live.
You can't fight it.. as each generation is more and more freed from the legal requirement that they get married and be a homemaker... they are more and more stepping away from men. This is the crisis men are having... they had it 100% their way until about 1950 and now, they don't. They refuse to change and women are just moving away from them and marriage.
Right now they get a lot of women due to brainwashing in the media about loving relationships in soaps and fairy tales... but that won't last much longer.
That’s situational stuff you’re debating. You’re arguing apples to oranges. I’m talking about how the two sexes are biologically wired. Women these days who are putting their careers first end up miserable in their mid to late 30s or 40s. Do you wanna talk about a pandemic. That’s the real one. And even in the context of which you describe above, women still “looked for a man who has provider ship qualities“ and they still do it today. Yes, even if they have their own career and make their own money they still want a man who is capable of going out and providing. A man? He looks for the most attractive woman that he can get. Biological. Not situational.
Maybe for you, but not most women, you can’t ignore or fight how to two sexes have been biologically wired for millions of years. You can put on your liberal hat and try, but nature always comes full circle. I’m not implying “little woman” it’s just a fact that women look for a man who’s life they can adjust into. For centuries.
Has nothing to do with being biologically wired. First of all Homo sapiens are ~300,000 years old, not millions.
For centuries women had no choice but to adjust to a man's life because law and society did not allow women to pursue a life on her own as did men. That is no longer the case hence why men are feeling in crisis because women are living life on their own terms now.
Part of the issue in this thread is that the OP doesn’t seem to pin down what the alleged crisis is. Is it that men are not pursuing college or good career opportunities at high enough levels or is it that they aren’t getting women as easily as they used to? I don’t think anyone has shown that the guys who get the most women are the same ones who do well in school and have the best career opportunities other than the celebrity contingent. Presumably we are not talking about actors and NBA players. Instead we are talking about regular men in regular jobs.
Exactly. Not one has been able to define the crisis. Instead, they default to trying to tell women what women's faults are, what we want and why we want it. And they wonder why we are dismissive.
But it is plausible and what is actually happening today despite how people lived thousands of years ago or a small self survey.
It seems plausible. In that sense I agree. However the findings contradict it.
Higher status women place less emphasis on the financial status of their partner than lower status women. That means the desire for financial parity is unlikely to be an important explanation for why they prefer older men than lower status women.
That’s situational stuff you’re debating. You’re arguing apples to oranges. I’m talking about how the two sexes are biologically wired. Women these days who are putting their careers first end up miserable in their mid to late 30s or 40s. Do you wanna talk about a pandemic. That’s the real one. And even in the context of which you describe above, women still “looked for a man who has provider ship qualities“ and they still do it today. Yes, even if they have their own career and make their own money they still want a man who is capable of going out and providing. A man? He looks for the most attractive woman that he can get. Biological. Not situational.
In your insecure mind maybe but women with careers say differently. Are you forgetting this thread's original topic is men who believe MEN are in crisis. It is not women who are in crisis or miserable, its not women complaining about being alone, sexless, unemployed or uneducated.
Of course a smart woman wants someone on par with them to improve and secure their lifestyle. Thats just smart. Why would a successful woman want to pair up with someone she will have to support or will drag her down or reduce her future or that of her children.
I would have to disagree that all a man cares about in a woman is her looks. The successful men are the ones who use their big head and marry women on par with their own qualities.
It seems plausible, I agree. However the findings contradict it.
Higher status women place less emphasis on the financial status of their partner than lower status women. That means the desire for financial parity is unlikely to be an important explanation for why they prefer older men than lower status women.
No the findings dont. Look around you and at actual current data. Higher status women mate up with higher status men, lower status women pair up with lower status men. That is coupling within your own socioeconomic circle. That is what is happening and has been happening. Women dont in general prefer much older men, the men in their circle ("higher status") are generally older as people gain education, status and wealth as they get older.
Are their outliers, gold diggers, yes, but it is not the norm.
In your insecure mind maybe but women with careers say differently. Are you forgetting this thread's original topic is men who believe MEN are in crisis. It is not women who are in crisis or miserable, its not women complaining about being alone, sexless, unemployed or uneducated.
Of course a smart woman wants someone on par with them to improve and secure their lifestyle. Thats just smart. Why would a successful woman want to pair up with someone she will have to support or will drag her down or reduce her future or that of her children.
I would have to disagree that all a man cares about in a woman is her looks. The successful men are the ones who use their big head and marry women on par with their own qualities.
What a lot of people also neglect to mention is that even women who stayed home in the past worked hard. Even a task like doing laundry was backbreaking work that could take 1-2 days per week. Cleaning happened a lot more often as well because people cooked/heated in their main living space and got ash and smoke and lots of other cooking remnants all over. Very few women were sitting at home pampered. They were cooking, cleaning, often pregnant, and doing other stuff around the home that took much longer than it does now. So the division of labor was more because it was necessary. Most people did not have the money to have domestic servants. In the past, men would often look for women who could work hard. She was a far better spouse than the frail woman who cared about appearances but could not cook or do laundry.
I saw the episode when it aired, and when the guy on the left started spouting incel talking points, only I think he took 80/20 a step further and made it 90/10... I wanted to throw something at the TV or shout "FFS!" and storm off. Because I've had so many conversations with these guys on THIS forum (mostly in Relationships) going back like 11 years now...
I'm 100% completely positive that more than 10 or 20% of men are getting laid, getting married, and passing on their genes in American society. I have no doubt in my mind of it.
And the thing I have always said to the struggle bros, is that you do not have to have EVERYTHING, nor do you have to have THIS or THAT specific thing, going for you, to successfully date. But you DO have to have SOMETHING.
If you are in bad shape physically, not good looking, can't/won't hold a job, you're broke, you have no talents or hobbies of interest to others (only things like video games that serve more to isolate you), no education, no ambition, and a head full of bad attitude and mean-spiritedness...
WHY do you think a woman, any woman, or anyone, would want to be with you? These guys, a lot of them, don't even want to be with themselves...why should anyone else want to be with them?
And in turn, they want and are furious that they cannot get: A young, gorgeous, fertile "female" who is sexually inexperienced, and will be loyal and faithful and breed their offspring, and also, provide for 100% of their emotional needs, hold a steady job and support them, cook and clean up after them like their mommy, and give them a lifestyle of ease and loads of sex. Some of them also feel entitled to drink and use drugs and be abusive and fill the house with stress and conflict all the damn time, on top of that.
When you bring NOTHING and demand EVERYTHING you're gonna have a bad time.
Don't know what to tell you.
Tough?
There are plenty of men in this world who are short, OR not blessed with great looks, OR unemployed/underemployed/broke/etc, OR kinda boring, OR...any possible less-than-perfect thing, yet who have successful love lives BECAUSE they have something else going for them that makes up for whatever human imperfection or shortcoming they have, but no, you do no deserve to have it all simply for being born male and surviving to adulthood and breathing in and out.
Nor does any woman deserve everything for nothing, but she ain't getting it. Women struggle to find men who will even be capable of letting us live decent lives without ruining them one day at a time. The odds might be good, but for single women...the goods are odd.
I saw the episode when it aired, and when the guy on the left started spouting incel talking points, only I think he took 80/20 a step further and made it 90/10... I wanted to throw something at the TV or shout "FFS!" and storm off. Because I've had so many conversations with these guys on THIS forum (mostly in Relationships) going back like 11 years now...
I'm 100% completely positive that more than 10 or 20% of men are getting laid, getting married, and passing on their genes in American society. I have no doubt in my mind of it.
And the thing I have always said to the struggle bros, is that you do not have to have EVERYTHING, nor do you have to have THIS or THAT specific thing, going for you, to successfully date. But you DO have to have SOMETHING.
If you are in bad shape physically, not good looking, can't/won't hold a job, you're broke, you have no talents or hobbies of interest to others (only things like video games that serve more to isolate you), no education, no ambition, and a head full of bad attitude and mean-spiritedness...
WHY do you think a woman, any woman, or anyone, would want to be with you? These guys, a lot of them, don't even want to be with themselves...why should anyone else want to be with them?
And in turn, they want and are furious that they cannot get: A young, gorgeous, fertile "female" who is sexually inexperienced, and will be loyal and faithful and breed their offspring, and also, provide for 100% of their emotional needs, hold a steady job and support them, cook and clean up after them like their mommy, and give them a lifestyle of ease and loads of sex. Some of them also feel entitled to drink and use drugs and be abusive and fill the house with stress and conflict all the damn time, on top of that.
When you bring NOTHING and demand EVERYTHING you're gonna have a bad time.
Don't know what to tell you.
Tough?
There are plenty of men in this world who are short, OR not blessed with great looks, OR unemployed/underemployed/broke/etc, OR kinda boring, OR...any possible less-than-perfect thing, yet who have successful love lives BECAUSE they have something else going for them that makes up for whatever human imperfection or shortcoming they have, but no, you do no deserve to have it all simply for being born male and surviving to adulthood and breathing in and out.
Nor does any woman deserve everything for nothing, but she ain't getting it. Women struggle to find men who will even be capable of letting us live decent lives without ruining them one day at a time. The odds might be good, but for single women...the goods are odd.
If you are going to miss the key thesis points with intent why even bother to post?
No the findings dont. Look around you and at actual current data. Higher status women mate up with higher status men, lower status women pair up with lower status men. That is coupling within your own socioeconomic circle. That is what is happening and has been happening. Women dont in general prefer much older men, the men in their circle ("higher status") are generally older as people gain education, status and wealth as they get older.
Are their outliers, gold diggers, yes, but it is not the norm.
If you haven't realized by now why your argument here is wrong, let me explain.
1. "There is some motivation for high status women to seek financial parity in their relationships."
2. "Financial parity is the principal motivation for why high status women seek older men."
Your statement in bold is evidence for point 1. What you need to prove is point 2.
These are entirely different propositions and one does not entail the other.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
