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Old 11-25-2022, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,462 posts, read 7,096,830 times
Reputation: 11708

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Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
Are you seriously asking me why people in the 1700's didn't specifically call out tanks, Uzi's and AK47's? All arms in existence were pretty basic. They could fire a few rounds in a minute, or something like that.

They wrote the constitution to be amendable, and that was sort of the main future-proofing effort of it.

We live in a completely different world than when that amendment was written, in every kind of way. That's not to say it wasn't or isn't wise, or worth keeping, but it clearly is outdated, just like the third amendment.


Citizens owned artillery and battleships at the time.

There were no restrictions on the type of arms anyone could own.
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:04 PM
 
19,724 posts, read 10,135,138 times
Reputation: 13096
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
It makes me so angry. I get convinced it should be okay for people to have their guns, to have them in their cars, etc...and then they go and let someone steal it. I know it isn't most.....
A gun should never be left in a car, but when you carry one for protection and you must enter a place that does not allow one, then what? There are very few places here that do not allow guns but there are a few. Mostly government buildings and Dr. offices. I don't buy from a business that won't let me carry and I know of none here that prohibit carry.
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:05 PM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,030,238 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Problem is... criminals would not be losing their guns. Because they are criminals, by definition, they do not follow laws. If they don't mind breaking a law against murder, I'm pretty sure they won't mind breaking a law against having a firearm.

And don't tell me that guns would not be available if they were against the law. LSD is against the law, and I could (if I wanted to, but don't) drive down on main street right now and score a hit. Or cocaine. Or mushrooms. Or pot. Etc. All of that is against the law and easily available. You are not going to stop a criminal from getting a gun by telling him they are against the law.
Years ago I read a paper that said, yes in fact as it is harder for 'normal' people to get a gun, it gets harder for criminals. It becomes more expensive for them....and that will impact at what level of criminality a gun becomes a viable option.

But I get it --- I understand and respect the argument that gun control makes it harder for good people and those good people don't believe any impact on criminality. Just stating what I heard ....and I wish I could find the article....but it was in the 90's.

Having said that....not only do I get angry with the idiot who left his gun unlocked in his car but then that idiot tries to tell us that criminals can get in even if the car is locked...while our local police clearly are stating unlocked cars are the problem


BLAH BLAH - I wander.

So the deal is -- there should be no ban on any kind of gun.
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,462 posts, read 7,096,830 times
Reputation: 11708
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
You know, we go thru this over and over again, of how the musket was not the only shoulder gun back then. The Puckle gun, for example, predated the Constitution by decades and had an external insertable magazine, like the -15. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

The Kalthoff repeater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalthoff_repeater predated the Constitution by centuries.

The Founding Fathers knew of changing technology because it existed back then.

And yet, people ignore this, over and over!


Some facts are too inconvenient for them to acknowledge, much less remember to acknowledge next time.
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:09 PM
 
19,724 posts, read 10,135,138 times
Reputation: 13096
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Some facts are too inconvenient for them to acknowledge, much less remember to acknowledge next time.
They choose to ignore any fact that contradicts what they want to believe.
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:12 PM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,656,375 times
Reputation: 1350
The most effective method to reduce killing and harm by firearms: Deal with inner-city males between 17 and 25 years old shooting others with illegally owned handguns.

Law enforcement knows who most of these people are...Assemble huge law-enforcement task-forces to go out and implement a concerted and focused "Stop and Frisk" protocol & a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years for possessing a loaded handgun illegally.
That would reduce the problem by 50 to 60% within 24 months.

Less than 1% of firearm homicides are by mass-shooters with legally owned AR-15 type firearms...though they receive 99% of the news coverage.

But because our government officials (any many citizens) function on emotion & biased headtrips, rather than facts, reason, and good sense, this will probably not happen.
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:13 PM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,030,238 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
The most effective method to reduce killing and harm by firearms: Deal with inner-city males between 17 and 25 years old shooting others with illegally owned handguns.

Law enforcement knows who most of these people are...Assemble huge law-enforcement task-forces to go out and implement a concerted and focused "Stop and Frisk" protocol & a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years for possessing a loaded handgun illegally.
That would reduce the problem by 50 to 60% within 24 months.

Less than 1% of firearm homicides are by mass-shooters with legally owned AR-15 type firearms...though they receive 99% of the news coverage.

But because our government officials (any many citizens) function on emotion & biased headtrips, rather than facts, reason, and good sense, this will probably not happen.
But are most of the 'mass' shootings at schools, grocery stores, churches from inner city kids?
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,142 posts, read 10,716,540 times
Reputation: 9799
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
I'm all for criminals losoing guns and would love my neighbors to stop leaving their guns in unlocked cars.

So left, right or independent --- not eveyrone wants to take your gun...but can we all agree responsible gun ownrs are sometimes not so reponsible.
No. We can agree that some gun owners are not responsible, but responsible gun owners are not the ones with the problem.
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:15 PM
 
19,724 posts, read 10,135,138 times
Reputation: 13096
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
The most effective method to reduce killing and harm by firearms: Deal with inner-city males between 17 and 25 years old shooting others with illegally owned handguns.

Law enforcement knows who most of these people are...Assemble huge law-enforcement task-forces to go out and implement a concerted and focused "Stop and Frisk" protocol & a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years for possessing a loaded handgun illegally.
That would reduce the problem by 50 to 60% within 24 months.

Less than 1% of firearm homicides are by mass-shooters with legally owned AR-15 type firearms...though they receive 99% of the news coverage.

But because our government officials (any many citizens) function on emotion & biased headtrips, rather than facts, reason, and good sense, this will probably not happen.
Trump offered to send in help but was called a racist.
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Old 11-25-2022, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,829 posts, read 7,268,603 times
Reputation: 7790
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Problem is... criminals would not be losing their guns. Because they are criminals, by definition, they do not follow laws. If they don't mind breaking a law against murder, I'm pretty sure they won't mind breaking a law against having a firearm.

And don't tell me that guns would not be available if they were against the law. LSD is against the law, and I could (if I wanted to, but don't) drive down on main street right now and score a hit. Or cocaine. Or mushrooms. Or pot. Etc. All of that is against the law and easily available. You are not going to stop a criminal from getting a gun by telling him they are against the law.
Japan has 125 million people, and they've almost completely eliminated gun deaths. And I'm sure there are definitely still some guns there, and a black market and all that. But the US has millions of guns everywhere, loose gun access laws, and there's thousands of freaking deaths from the guns. So while it's never an exact comparison with these other countries, it's very, obviously clear that gun control can be effective.

Having lived in a red state and now living in Seattle, it's definitely much easier to get pot here, and there's definitely a lot more people around smoking it everywhere. Because you walk downstairs, and you walk into the store and you get it, and there's no hassle or need to hide or illegality or anything. And the general culture doesn't care.

Surely we could make it more difficult for potential murderers to access semi-auto rifles, and that would reduce murder, and reduce death counts. I'm not buying that it wouldn't, when you look at the US vs other countries, including somewhat comparable ones like Australia.

Murders, and suicides, plummeted there, after they did something about guns after the Port Arthur massacre. So, really no, I don't buy that general argument. Of course some bad people will still get their hands on guns no matter what, but perfect can't be an enemy of good. I mean look at most of these recent mass murders being committed by young men, with the gun purchased legally, either by themselves or their parents. Having easy access to a gun in your home, or being able to just go get one at the gun store with legally minimal hurdles, surely increases the odds of using a gun to commit a deadly crime. Come on...
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