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Personally I am against defunding the police, or even funding reallocations that include modifying the police budget and reducing the number of officers and especially replacing them with social workers.
HOWEVER
I will acknowledge, there are alot of bad apples out there that are cops, and many of them do not become prosecuted when they violate the rights of citizens due to Qualified Immunity, and/or favor from the department in general which runs rampant among cops. This, unfortunately incites public fear of police and also causes unnecessary escalations between the public and the police.
I am a black male and I do believe in racial profiling, but I do not believe cop misconduct is strictly restricted to race. I have seen cops abuse white ex-military veterans and arrest them without cause just as much as they would fire a bean bag on a BLM protester who is not actively posing violence but protesting peacefully and not interfering with the public or business. I've seen them beat up a white woman who was not in any way or form a threat to the officer but just not fully compliant to the officer and countless unlawful detainments as well as brutality of all races.
Another issue is, who really wants to be a cop? They are underpaid, hated by the public (even more so today) and have quite a dangerous job, therefore the typical contender to the badge is either A.) has a deep passion for the job or B.) is a total nutjob who is willing to undertake the risks and is probably a bit borderline himself to be willing to do so. ... and option B is typically the person who violates rights and gets away with it.
Some hypothetical thoughts on policing and racism...
I am not entirely sure if Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck only because he was black, as Chauvin seemingly displayed insecurity issues throughout his career. Quite possible that it had nothing to do with race and everything to do with Chauvin as a person, but I can't dismiss the race factor entirely. Floyd and Chauvin did clash together frequently in the past as they were both security gaurds in the same night club years prior, but its not clear if Chauvin recognized Floyd or not either. Overall, both were in the wrong IMO, there were no hero's in that incident.
On the otherhand, Rayshard Brooks 'was' shot and killed with legitimate reasoning after the officer was very cooperative with him, had a legitimate reason to arrest him, he resisted, and even grabbed the officer's taser, and pointed it at him.
That stated though, while I overall agree there have been alot of police incidents where the criminal was misrepresented as the victim, I also have to acknowledge that police brutality, violence and oppression 'is' a real problem in America, but I don't agree with the solutions of funding reallocations and becoming softer on legitimate crime. There needs to be a way to hold officers more accountable for their civil actions while maintaining their integrity to real law offenders.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 03-15-2023 at 04:32 PM..
The best thing anyone could do to avoid "Oppressive" cops is to not get into trouble.
They certainly do have a very difficult job to do and out Elected on the Left have not made it any easier, in fact I would say that they have made it far more deadly with their weak on crime policies.
I agree that the Police do profile. They will look twice at any young man of any colour that might be acting oddly while ignoring someone like me, a middle aged white guy.
There are a lot of cops that are ex military and depending on their experience in the armed Forces they could bring either their expertise or baggage.
Cops are human too and they do make mistakes. They do get all worked up and lose their cool and the best way to avoid their ire is to avoid them by not getting into trouble. The Police were called on George Floyd because he was high and trying to pass counterfeit bills. In the lead up to Chauvin showing up the other officers were being rather nice to him by trying to get him to sit in the cruiser, he claimed to be claustrophobic so they offered to leave the doors open for him but no he struggled and Chauvin put an end to it and rather sadistically, he put an end to Floyd.
There are plenty of times, and we have seen them on video where a suspect struggles, fights, goes for the gun and it does not end well. I could never understand that mentality. Is it the giant chip on their shoulder or is it plain arrogance or stupidity but if I was in a spot where cops are screaming at me to get down and they have their guns and tasers out I would get down so fast and follow all their orders. If they are in the wrong it will be figured out later but a late apology is better than being dead.
If the cop screams stop, you stop.
There are bad people in all jobs and when it comes to cops they are eventually weeded out and either put on desk duty or somewhere else that keeps them away from the volatile public.
The trouble is the cops are called to situations where they are dealing with the dregs of society and that has to make them hardened to life in a way.
No matter what the profession is, there will always be a few bad actors within them. If we are honest, there is no realistic way of purging them out WITHOUT taking down way more of the good cops, which are now badly needed. I fully support prosecuting corrupt and bad cop 100%, but with the current anti police actions, many of the police departments within urban areas are now in trouble since officers are leaving in record numbers and simply retiring after 20 years, in most cases.
With that said, the good cops are the ones leaving and retiring AND the bad ones have no choice but to stay on since no other department or related careers would take them. The good cops have a great reputation and are very valuable since they’re likely to be crossed trained within numerous areas within law enforcement verses the bad ones, who tend to just do just the bare minimum.
By the public’s recent actions, good cops have options like moving to a more welcoming community, or simply seek out a new career path since serving a public that sees you as the problem isn’t worth the risk of being killed or seriously injured. Plus, many family members are supporting leaving law enforcement these days. Also, in most cases, only the good cops make it to retirement and within today’s anti police environment, it’s better to leave as soon as you can, before something happens, that you you had no control of.
I am half Black and after 26 years in law enforcement, I completely retired from law enforcement since “to me,” it was not worth staying any longer due to the current environment within policing. My original plans was to do 30 years, but because of all the hatred from the communities and even politicians, whom many are two-faced, that also jumped on the anti police bandwagon for votes, so why risk everything and I decided to retired in February 2021.
The way things are, “I” did not want to be described on TV as the WHITE-Black cop that shot a BLACK-Black man involved in a “mostly peaceful” armed robbery. It is stressful enough in this profession without making YOU the enemy and blaming YOU for every single social issue within every community. Honestly, my life is much better after leaving law enforcement and sadly, I cannot recommend law enforcement as a good career choice anymore. I know I am not the only one, since recruitment is way down within most every major urban departments, which is due to the now negative image Police now has. This was mainly done by the media and politicians, but on top this off, many cops are no longer “selling” this profession to family, friends and to the public.
I should note that recruitment is not only down within law enforcement, but the military as well, so more is involved in this matter.
In the end, cops are only human and now, the public will have to deal with the negative effects of the 2020 riots/demonstrations for many more years since departments across America lost centuries worth of knowledge and talent, in less than two years. And as humans, within America, cop are free to leave at anytime and many continue to leave, even now in 2023 with no signs of slowing down.
I know that several individuals will say that cop leaving is a good thing, but the truth is that nobody needs a cop UNTIL they need a cop.
Two officers in the town of Hermann Mo. (2100 pop.) tried to take a man into custody a couple days ago for failure to appeal. He shot both of them killing one. The police who arrested him the next day showed a lot of restraint by not shooting him. Bad cops are rare and most of them are only considered bad because they do make up reasons to write traffic tickets. 99% of the time, cops are fair. For most people, don't break the law and you will be fine. Most of these high profile cases are just caused by "the victim" mentality. Like Ferguson, where Brown went after the cop's gun. He was a thug. Chauvin did not deserve to die, but he was a career criminal, a five time loser. There are exceptions like the Breonna Taylor case, that cop was an idiot. Hopefully, he will go to jail for a long time. Most cops are NOT oppressive. And I say that even though I have dealt with a couple who were complete jerks.
I will acknowledge, there are alot of bad apples out there that are cops,
Please amplify. How many cops are bad apples, and how many are good cops?
I'm sure you wouldn't have said "a lot of bad apples that are cops" if you didn't have a pretty good idea of the actual numbers, or at least the actual ratio of good to bad.
Has there even been a case of police brutality against a person who completely complied with police oreders?
Seems to me that liberals should be telling black people to comply with police orders not glorifying the ones who don't.
This man right here is part of the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
The best thing anyone could do to avoid "Oppressive" cops is to not get into trouble.
You guys are kidding right. What did Daniel Shaver (white man from Arizona) do ? What did John Williams (native man from Seattle) do ? What did Amadou Diallo do ?
The best way to solve this problem is to acknowledge it and reform police culture.
Well, I personally have been pulled over as a young black male between my early 20's up into my mid 30's.. ..I fit the profile.. I have been pulled over probably a total of 7 - 8 times in my driving career, all legitimate offenses though, but I have no tickets, no infractions, no charges.. ..mainly because I didn't throw a big fuss about it and was willing to comply with the officer.
The first time was doing 65 in a 50 zone in a Cherry Apple Red 2001 Camaro Z28. Cop was irritated but he let me off with a warning because I had no prior infractions and I didn't escalate matters.
Second time, I made a left turn while I was in the middle of an intersection after the light turned red. While I did wonder about the legality of that, I didn't bug the cop about it and just cooperated with him. He explained it wasn't a right to turn intersection ... I just said 'Yes sir.' and he let me go on my way.
The third time, I was heading to Florida in a Monte Carlo - my fathers car. I was fitting the profile and got lit up for the Georgia State Patrol. At first I thought he was flagging me for speeding, but he told me something about a cover being on our license plate (how could he have seen that from a dead stop is beyond me). After he saw it was just me (who was alteast clean cut) and my mother (who looked like a business woman) his suspicion seemingly dropped. He asked where we were headed, I told him we were going to a Real Estate Convention.. ..he let us go on our way..
The fourth time, I was going through a breakup and had alot on my mind, I wasn't paying attention to how fast I was going and ended up doing 50 in a 35. I didn't even notice the cop had been pursuing me for several blocks either. She was PISSED when I finally pulled over. I deeply and sincerely apologized to her when she asked me why I didnt immediately pull over, I told her I just had alot on my mind after a breakup. She seemed very suspicious at first. She ran my license and came back and told me my saving grace was that I had a clean record and reminded me of what the speed limit was.
The fifth time. I was headed to Denny's once again in the same Firebird. It was 3am, I couldn't sleep.. I decided I'd grab some breakfast.. ..a cat jumped out infront of and scared the living crap out of me, I jumped into the left lane to avoid it and ended up jumping infront of another vehicle, then I jumped into the center turn lane to avoid being rear-ended by that vehicle.. ..then came back over to the right lane, and got lit up... The cop pulled me over and wanted to know why I was dancing all over the road, I explained to him what happened. He ran my license, came back and gave me a warning and told me he didn't want to see driving like that again.
The sixth time. I was doing 65 in a 50 zone again, this time in a 2017 Camaro, albeit on a much wider and flatter / open road where 50 felt a bit slow, I was trying to get around someone too, got pulled over by a biker cop. Cooperated with him, he asked me where I was from ( I had just moved to TX ) and what I did for work ( I was in IT ) .. and he let me go free after that and reminded me the speed limit.
The seventh time. I feel this 'may' have been a profiling attempt as I drove by a cop who was sitting on the shoulder of the road while I was doing an Uber and pulled into a very affluent neighbhorhood. I got lit up but the cop calmed down when they saw my Uber app and told me she was just pulling me over because my license tag light was out and told me if everything cleared on my MVR I was good to go... and got off with another warning. I ended up selling the car before I replaced the license tag light though.
The eighth time happened fairly recently, and ironically too. I was pulling into a empty and wide street zoned for residential (no houses on it, and very wide.. ..just in a residential side of town) The street used to have a 40 MPH speed limit but the city reduced it to 30. I entered the street doing 55. I noticed and told myself 'whoa, I need to slow down' .. ..and I did.. ..but then kept driving and the random thoughts came back and I wandered into 45 ... ... and passed a cop ... got lit up .. pulled over immediately, I knew I was at fault and didn't even bother trying to fabricate a lie, I straight up told the cop I wasn't paying attention. I was still using an out of state license too (the DMV's were backlogged due to Covid-19 and it took me over a year to get an appointment) and explained the situation. She cooperated, ran my license.. ..came back to me and gave me a warning but cautioned me to slow down. I also apologized to her.
So from my personal experiences I can't conclude that bad cop experiences are always explicitly due to race but.. ..multiple factors and race is sometimes one of them.
That stated, I personally will not escalate matters with a cop. I think it's stupid to do so. That stated though I have witnessed where matters escalated on the cops side even when the person was acting within his rights, and sometimes even peacefully.. ..and I also find it appalling how many cops seem not to know our rights or constitution which, gets alittle scary.
Has there even been a case of police brutality against a person who completely complied with police oreders?
Seems to me that liberals should be telling black people to comply with police orders not glorifying the ones who don't.
If the police says give me your ID and an innocent black person says this is not a “stop and ID state”. How does my ID provide evidence wether I have committed a crime?
Does that justify an assault and false arrest?
That is why a jury awarded a family $8.5 million last week.week.
What about the white kid who the cop lifted off the ground and crushed his skull into the pavement? That kid was completely innocent.
Should people comply with unlawful orders? people should let bad police trample over their constitutionally protected rights?
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