Is tomorrow the day U.S. citizens surrender their country to a foreign national invasion? (NAFTA, Clinton)

[Redshadowz]

Originally Posted by berdee

So why increase that drain by allowing illegals to come here?

1) Everyone pays taxes.

2) Money cannot be taxed. Only work can be taxed. Whether you pay the tax or your employer pays the tax or your customer pays the tax is wholly irrelevant.

By my analysis, a roofer pays more taxes than a hedgefund manager because a roofer produces something of tangible value, whereas a hedgefund manager produces nothing. I would rather live in a country filled with day laborers than bankers.

The day laborers produce things. The bankers just manipulate, counterfeit, exploit, and steal.

Originally Posted by berdee

We have visas workers for many of those jobs. Plenty of citizens work in construction, service jobs, etc., who have been pushed out due to cheap labor.

Again, you're missing the point. This is not your country. This country is owned by the corporations/bankers. They want cheap labor to suppress wages to economically compete with China. They also want consumers, construction workers, and service providers to grow the real-estate market, to provide the services that allow the rich to live in luxury, and to enable both high-skilled men and women to pursue careers.

Legal and illegal immigration serve a purpose. If illegal-immigration was a problem it would have been stopped decades ago. Immigrants(both legal and illegal) are good for the economy. Period.

Originally Posted by berdee

In your opinion, what is it that needs to be done?

As long as capital rules, then capital will rule.

[berdee]

Originally Posted by Redshadowz

1) Everyone pays taxes.

2) Money cannot be taxed. Only work can be taxed. Whether you pay the tax or your employer pays the tax or your customer pays the tax is wholly irrelevant.

By my analysis, a roofer pays more taxes than a hedgefund manager because a roofer produces something of tangible value, whereas a hedgefund manager produces nothing. I would rather live in a country filled with day laborers than bankers.

The day laborers produce things. The bankers just manipulate, counterfeit, exploit, and steal.

Not really an answer to the question.

Again, you're missing the point. This is not your country. This country is owned by the corporations/bankers. They want cheap labor to suppress wages to economically compete with China. They also want consumers, construction workers, and service providers to grow the real-estate market, to provide the services that allow the rich to live in luxury, and to enable both high-skilled men and women to pursue careers.

Legal and illegal immigration serve a purpose. If illegal-immigration was a problem it would have been stopped decades ago. Immigrants(both legal and illegal) are good for the economy. Period.

I'd already stated that they want a slave class and the left [and some on the right] and the left base are happy to oblige.

As long as capital rules, then capital will rule.

Not an answer to the question.

[Redshadowz]

Originally Posted by johnwk1

Plenty changed when Trump was president. Perhaps it's time for those who have been voting for a Democrat Leadership, year after year, even though that leadership has destroyed so many of our Nation' s cities, hold their nose and take a chance on a Republican Leadership.

In the days after Trump was elected in 2016, the Republicans on this forum made thread after thread about how socialism and leftism had failed, illegal immigration would be stopped/reversed, the country was tired of identity-politics/racism, that the democrats and "the establishment" were losing power, and that Trump would "drain the swamp".

I explained to them that literally none of these things would happen, that the overall trajectory would remain exactly the same, and that if anything it would get worse.

That doesn't mean nothing happened under Trump. He did lower taxes, loosen regulations to boost oil production, and stack the court with right-leaning Supreme Court Justices. But that would have happened with Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush as president.

The only positive good Trump did was prevent the neocons from starting their war with Russia earlier. But at the same time, I think the Trump election galvanized anti-Russian sentiment on the left, so that anti-war leftists became foaming at the mouth warhawks.

The reason I knew this was going to happen is because I remember what happened after Obama won in 2008. The establishment funded tea-partiers and other right-wing radicals to prevent Obama from doing anything they didn't approve, and Obama became the biggest establishment stooge at all. Drone striking children and funding ISIS while holding his Nobel Peace Prize.

Originally Posted by johnwk1

Common sense ought to tell you that flooding the United States with millions upon millions of poverty-stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, diseased, disabled, and criminal populations of other countries, is not a good idea. The fact is, American citizens and their children, who live in our nation's inner cities, are the first to suffer the consequences. Their public schools are overburdened with the children of illegal entrant foreign nationals, emergency care facilities are being bankrupted by providing free health care for these border jumpers, and who would have thought that the Democrat Party Leadership would have the nerve to provide taxpayer financed public housing vouchers to these invaders, and make American citizens compete with these foreign nationals for scare public housing, when our own citizens, including our military veterans, are going homeless?

Your problem is that you think what is good for you, or what is good for the working class, or what is good for the majority, is what is good for the country. The country is a corporation that exists for profit, power, and influence. It does not exist to improve your life. And democracy is just theater.

The rich will always get what they want.

[Redshadowz]

Originally Posted by berdee

Not really an answer to the question.

Your question was, why bring people here who would be a drain? My answer was, they aren't a drain. Which is why our leaders are bringing them here.

Originally Posted by berdee

Not an answer to the question.

If you tell me what I meant, you'll have your answer.

[berdee]

Originally Posted by Redshadowz

Your question was, why bring people here who would be a drain? My answer was, they aren't a drain. Which is why our leaders are bringing them here.

They are very much a drain to the citizens.

If you tell me what I meant, you'll have your answer.

I'm not a mind reader.

[Redshadowz]

Originally Posted by berdee

They are very much a drain to the citizens.

The entire purpose of immigration has always been to suppress wages. It has always been a net negative for the vast majority of the population. Even legal immigration doesn't benefit the vast majority of Americans and drives up housing prices/cost-of-living/etc.

Immigration exists because it is good for the economy, and what is good for the economy is good for the country.

Originally Posted by berdee

I'm not a mind reader.

It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out.... "As long as capital rules, then capital will rule."

Come on man, I know you are smart enough to figure it out.

[Du Ma]

Originally Posted by Redshadowz

1) Everyone pays taxes.

2) Money cannot be taxed. Only work can be taxed. Whether you pay the tax or your employer pays the tax or your customer pays the tax is wholly irrelevant.

By my analysis, a roofer pays more taxes than a hedgefund manager because a roofer produces something of tangible value, whereas a hedgefund manager produces nothing. I would rather live in a country filled with day laborers than bankers.

The day laborers produce things. The bankers just manipulate, counterfeit, exploit, and steal.



Again, you're missing the point. This is not your country. This country is owned by the corporations/bankers. They want cheap labor to suppress wages to economically compete with China. They also want consumers, construction workers, and service providers to grow the real-estate market, to provide the services that allow the rich to live in luxury, and to enable both high-skilled men and women to pursue careers.

Legal and illegal immigration serve a purpose. If illegal-immigration was a problem it would have been stopped decades ago. Immigrants(both legal and illegal) are good for the economy. Period.



As long as capital rules, then capital will rule.

If illegal immigration is “good” for the economy, then why do we even have immigration law and spend billions of dollars to fund government agencies like CBP and ICE each year to enforce those law?

If illegal immigration (aka open border) is “good” for the economy, then how come every first world nation do not have open border?

Also, why do you assume every illegal immigrant is able-body-working age people?

[Redshadowz]

Originally Posted by Du Ma

If illegal immigration is “good” for the economy, then why do we even have immigration law and spend billions of dollars to fund government agencies like CBP and ICE each year to enforce those law?

1) If the government actually wanted to stop illegal immigration, it could. People pretend like it is some complicated thing. Even Trump's wall is literally a drop in the bucket when it comes to federal spending and the supposed cost of illegal immigration.

2) The job of border patrol is to keep out drugs and criminals. It is funded just enough to do a minimal job of monitoring the border and targeting threats, while also preventing the country from being swamped by immigration to the point it could destabilize the country socially/politically and cause deflation.

3) We don't have open-borders so much as managed illegal-immigration. Illegal-immigrants don't have the same rights as legal immigrants, they work for less, they don't collect benefits, and they tend to avoid interactions with the police. The ones who do interact with police(because of criminality or suspected criminality) get removed.

[berdee]

Originally Posted by Redshadowz

The entire purpose of immigration has always been to suppress wages. It has always been a net negative for the vast majority of the population. Even legal immigration doesn't benefit the vast majority of Americans and drives up housing prices/cost-of-living/etc.

Immigration exists because it is good for the economy, and what is good for the economy is good for the country.



It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out.... "As long as capital rules, then capital will rule."

Come on man, I know you are smart enough to figure it out.

You are conflating the average citizen with the elites.

Once again, I'm not a mind reader and I'm not going to pretend to know what or how you think things should be done. I could guess, but that really isn't knowing.

[Redshadowz]

Originally Posted by berdee

You are conflating the average citizen with the elites.

What I'm saying is, America always pursues its "national interests". And national interests are corporate interests. Unless you think it was average citizens who lied us into wars and wrote our immigration policy.

Originally Posted by berdee

Once again, I'm not a mind reader and I'm not going to pretend to know what or how you think things should be done. I could guess, but that really isn't knowing.

If I say, "As long as the democrats rule, then democrats will rule". What do you think that means? And what would the answer be to that problem? Good lord.