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As Oz said, a licensed dealer has to have this form for all sales of firearms. Yes they apply to gun shows as well. Private sales at gun shows used to be exempt, but not any more. Not here anyway. I can't speak for all states but I thought the new requirement was Federal. Am I mistaken...anyone? It must be cus it's a Federal form. The guns serial number is recorded on it, the dealers lic. personal info (drivers lic. required and SSN as well) then the info on the form is used for the instant check that the dealer calls in (law enforcement handles the criminal/ mental records check) and you pass or fail on your background that is on record. There is talk of this applyng to private sales out of ones home now as well. You want to sell a gun to one of your buddies, gotta get a 4473. Now how that form is to be recorded and how they intend to enforce such sales ..... Good question. I don't know.
There was a show on ABC this week that followed a kid to a gun show in VA... he came out with about 20 guns and nobody asked him for anything so I don't think those sales are recorded in many states... I think that's the loophole that many people want to close. He even bought a gun while standing on line to get into the gun show... just cash and the gun was handed over. One dealer asked for a driver's license and when he balked, the dealer just asked for $100 more. So, it doesnt sound like those guns at least were registered at all.
In Canada registration has accomplished little and has cost a fortune....it will of course be much more expensive here as there are more firearms and people....
OZ, I think you finally made a good argument. If it has proven to be ineffectual, then I think that's a good argument against its imposition... it sounds like there may be better methods out there to achieve the same results... although I don't know the veracity of your claim and given your misinterpretation of the Hynes case, I would have to double-check myself.
There was a show on ABC this week that followed a kid to a gun show in VA... he came out with about 20 guns and nobody asked him for anything so I don't think those sales are recorded in many states... I think that's the loophole that many people want to close. He even bought a gun while standing on line to get into the gun show... just cash and the gun was handed over. One dealer asked for a driver's license and when he balked, the dealer just asked for $100 more. So, it doesnt sound like those guns at least were registered at all.
Those weren't dealers,they were private individuals.
What you want is to restrict the sale of private property.
It is never a good idea to try and gain knowledge from a TV show...
OZ, I think you finally made a good argument. If it has proven to be ineffectual, then I think that's a good argument against its imposition... it sounds like there may be better methods out there to achieve the same results... although I don't know the veracity of your claim and given your misinterpretation of the Hynes case, I would have to double-check myself.
Registration can only work if criminals choose to not act in a criminal manner.
I would imagine registration of firearms will be as successful as making cocaine illegal to possess....
So the majority of the Swiss who support gun ownership principally for defense of homeland and from government are conspiracy theorists?
No, the Swiss are all obligated to serve in the military and gun ownership is virtually a requirement. Again, since all you conservatives are now so open to European ideas, are you all going to support a single-payer health insurance system because the Swiss have it? How about 70% income tax rates? Would that work for you as well? The Swiss have mandatory national service -- is that a go too? Stay logically consistent at least.
Yes you can still buy or sell your private property in other states...
Also, the for requirement only applys to registered vendors at gun shows. What goes down between two individuals who are there as patrons, thats different. A vendor cannot sell a firearm at a gun show unless he is an FFL holder, no gun sales at, say, the holster exihbit. Thre's a few ins and outs on the gun show thing.
Those weren't dealers,they were private individuals.
What you want is to restrict the sale of private property.
It is never a good idea to try and gain knowledge from a TV show...
So licensed dealers can't participate in those gun shows? I'm asking because I don't know. And what is wrong with the restriction of private sales? I can't sell my car without signing over the title and having the government issue a new title to the new owner. If we care about guns not getting into the wrong hands, why would we not make sure that these gun shows are subject to the same rules as the gun dealer down the street?
If you pay attention, I already stated that the over-inclusivenss of the ban is a good argument that should be addressed. But of course you gloss over that because you're just itching to argue something.
I am paying attention, more so than you, apparently, and I glossed over nothing. You openly stated something that demonstrated with no room for error or misinterpretation that you don't know what the AWB is about. That, especially coming from someone with a background in law, is worthy of mention. No straw man argument or attempt to deflect our attention from your obvious ignorance will change what you said. You're just bothered that you were called on it.
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Originally Posted by vsmoove
Unlike you, I'm also here to listen to opposing viewpoints...
You're right, I'm not here to "listen to opposing viewpoints" when it comes to my Constitutional rights. I'm here to defend them against those who would seek to remove them from me or place unreasonable restrictions on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsmoove
although there are so few thoughtful conservatives on here that I may not stick around... it's like going to a Palin rally or something.
And here we have it - the real vsmoove. When all else fails, generalize, name-call and capitalize on the current liberal insult-du-jour. Nice job.
So licensed dealers can't participate in those gun shows? I'm asking because I don't know. And what is wrong with the restriction of private sales? I can't sell my car without signing over the title and having the government issue a new title to the new owner. If we care about guns not getting into the wrong hands, why would we not make sure that these gun shows are subject to the same rules as the gun dealer down the street?
If you purchase a car and never drive it on the road (aka a garage queen or for parts), the need for registration does not exist. You do not drive guns on an interstate or highway. Some keep guns as "safe queens" or only fire them in their backyard. Going by your analogy, there is no requirement to register these types of guns. Are we to distinguish guns by whether they are taken to a range or stay on the premises?
So licensed dealers can't participate in those gun shows? I'm asking because I don't know.
Yes,however they must use the NICS background check.
Quote:
And what is wrong with the restriction of private sales? I can't sell my car without signing over the title and having the government issue a new title to the new owner.
Yes you can....you can sell your car to whoever you like and if they choose to not title it that is their business....in fact if you choose you do not have to title a vehicle at all...
Quote:
If we care about guns not getting into the wrong hands, why would we not make sure that these gun shows are subject to the same rules as the gun dealer down the street?
Because criminals do not get their guns from gun shows.
Criminals buy them illegally....
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. Good question. I don't know.
A vendor cannot sell a firearm at a gun show unless he is an FFL holder, no gun sales at, say, the holster exihbit. Thre's a few ins and outs on the gun show thing.
