Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All immigrants need to assimilate to the countries they move to our go back to the place they came from. Do you think any muslim country would not demand you assimilate to their culture?
The burqa is not an Islam thing. It isn't even an Afghanistan thing. It is something that a band of religious looneys distorted to subjegate women with.
It really is no different then FGM. Or should that be acceptable in France too, because a small subset of a small demographic may practice it and call it either cultural and/or religious?
BS. France can and should have the right to demand that its immigrants assimiliate to French standards. I mean, if the immigrants have no desire to become French - then why go there in the first place? This was their (the immigrants) initial choice after all.
All immigrants need to assimilate to the countries they move to our go back to the place they came from. Do you think any muslim country would not demand you assimilate to their culture?
If you mean by learning the language so they can function with society, I agree. If you mean by adopting various practical aspects within that society to be able to properly function within it, then I also agree.
Yet this issue doesn't seem to be that case unless its practice defies the ability to function practically in that society. The reasoning made for support is subjective appeal. That is, it is based on one persons cultural position on the issue versus the other. Neither position is valid as a rule, each is valid in its own acceptance.
A government that purports to support individual freedom of choice can not deny ones choice on these grounds. To do so invalidates its initial claim of individual freedom. If France wishes to make that a policy, that is they believe individual freedom should be dictated by either a majority or that of a ruling body, then at least their position would be "logical" regardless of peoples opinions on it being right or wrong.
So the real question then becomes: Does France support the ideal of individual freedom in their government or not? If not, well this is acceptable behavior for their system. If they do, then they are nothing short of hypocrites riding each side of the fence based on how it benefits their opinion.
This isn't an "anti-Muslim stance." This is standing up against oppressive cultural practices. The burqa is not required by Islam. The wearing of a burqa is evidence of psychological terrorism perpetrated against female members of the Muslim community. There is no "choice" involved for the woman. Extremist Muslim fundamentalists convince them that they must cover themselves in order not to offend God. It's appalling. To argue that the wearing of the burqa is a choice, as some people do, is to argue that the woman who mutilates the genitals of her daughter in order to "purify" her for marriage is also making a "choice."
It's also a safety issue: Her compromised vision and movement puts the woman at risk of assault or physical accident.
And finally, it's a security issue: The person who wears a burqa belongs to an extremist, fundamentalist sect of Islam. These are the same people who are anti-democracy and anti-Western society (the irony of their presence here aside), and are the ones who want Islam to take over the world. So no, they cannot be allowed to move incognito through a free society (the irony of that aside) when what they wish to do is destroy that society.
The burqa is not an Islam thing. It isn't even an Afghanistan thing. It is something that a band of religious looneys distorted to subjegate women with.
It really is no different then FGM. Or should that be acceptable in France too, because a small subset of a small demographic may practice it and call it either cultural and/or religious?
BS. France can and should have the right to demand that its immigrants assimiliate to French standards. I mean, if the immigrants have no desire to become French - then why go there in the first place? This was their (the immigrants) initial choice after all.
It doesn't matter who, what, or why you disagree with its use. It isn't your choice to demand either way. Now your argument would be valid if they were being forced against their will to wear these. Then at least you would have a position that argues that their individual freedom is being oppressed. If they choose to wear them, for whatever reason, then your say in the matter ends. You don't have to agree with them wearing it, you just don't have any say on if they do or not.
If you mean by learning the language so they can function with society, I agree. If you mean by adopting various practical aspects within that society to be able to properly function within it, then I also agree.
Yet this issue doesn't seem to be that case unless its practice defies the ability to function practically in that society. The reasoning made for support is subjective appeal. That is, it is based on one persons cultural position on the issue versus the other. Neither position is valid as a rule, each is valid in its own acceptance.
A government that purports to support individual freedom of choice can not deny ones choice on these grounds. To do so invalidates its initial claim of individual freedom. If France wishes to make that a policy, that is they believe individual freedom should be dictated by either a majority or that of a ruling body, then at least their position would be "logical" regardless of peoples opinions on it being right or wrong.
So the real question then becomes: Does France support the ideal of individual freedom in their government or not? If not, well this is acceptable behavior for their system. If they do, then they are nothing short of hypocrites riding each side of the fence based on how it benefits their opinion.
Well, Female genital mutillation is cultural - should France allow that? Arranged marriages of older men to young teens is cultural - should France allow that? What about honor killings? Polygamous marriages?
Just where do you think France can draw the line between cultural/religious practices of immigrants and the cultural mores and legal system of France?
All immigrants need to assimilate to the countries they move to our go back to the place they came from. Do you think any muslim country would not demand you assimilate to their culture?
So all cultures should use muslim cultures as their model for rules of assimilation?
*Chuckle* Aye. Ive watched professors cringe and stutter in subjects as these. The problem with some ideologies is that they contain conflicting concepts. The support of individual freedom, yet according to the freedoms they agree with. The support of cultural relativity, yet the cultures they agree with. These people need to do a lot more thinking about what they truly believe.
Well, Female genital mutillation is cultural - should France allow that? Arranged marriages of older men to young teens is cultural - should France allow that? What about honor killings? Polygamous marriages?
Logical Fallacy
Your objection does not lend support to your position nor contest my claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping!
Just where do you think France can draw the line between cultural/religious practices of immigrants and the cultural mores and legal system of France?
The line? Well, it would start with "individual freedom of choice". If a person chooses to wear them, it doesn't matter why they do, only that they "choose" to do so. As I mentioned above before, if they were being forced to wear them against their own will, then you might have a case and only for those who are being forced. As it stands, you are merely injecting your personal opinion into the issue and demanding conformity to it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
